Mesh WiFi Recommendations

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broonie27

109 posts

Master Geek

#306121 29-Jun-2023 20:36

Hi There,

Looking for recommendations for mesh wifi network sets. I currently have a Unifi Ubiquiti set up with 3 APs but I find it really quite poor. The bandwidth I get even from the main AP, which is Ethernet connected to my Vodafone HTC router, isn't great, and the throughput on the two downstream APs is appalling.

I'm looking at a budget of no more than $600 -$700 for a set of 3. I have a lot of Amazon devices in the house so was thinking about Eero but obviously open to any suggestions.

Also, from reading some of the bumpf on mesh systems it describes one of the devices in each set as a "router" . Is this correct? My Ubiquiti devices are just "dumb" APs and no more than that.

Lastly, the one thing I like about the Ubiquity stuff is the AP controller as it provides a lot of useful information and control over connected clients, so do these more user friendly consumer targeted set ups provide anything similar? For example I like the ability to lock a client so it always connects to the same AP.

Cheers
C

1 | 2

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3097397 29-Jun-2023 20:55

Do you have a Ubiquity software controller or compute key running? With out an active controller they are just AP's not a mesh system (which AP type do you have?). Also have you updated the firmware on the AP's, and tried repositioning them so they get better signal?

If you can't get decent performance out of modern Ubiquiti AP's I'm not sure you will do much better with any standard consumer mesh system, without using ethernet backhaul. And if you were going to use ethernet backhaul you might as well set it up for the Unifi APs which would improve there performance.

cddt

1548 posts

Uber Geek

#3097419 29-Jun-2023 21:13

Can you run ethernet to all APs?

If so I would currently recommend GWN7660s. But a lot depends on your setup, layout, configuration, and I suspect you're not getting the most out of your current gear so will run into the same problems with new equipment.

broonie27

109 posts

Master Geek

#3097870 30-Jun-2023 17:56

eonsim:

Do you have a Ubiquity software controller or compute key running? With out an active controller they are just AP's not a mesh system (which AP type do you have?). Also have you updated the firmware on the AP's, and tried repositioning them so they get better signal?

If you can't get decent performance out of modern Ubiquiti AP's I'm not sure you will do much better with any standard consumer mesh system, without using ethernet backhaul. And if you were going to use ethernet backhaul you might as well set it up for the Unifi APs which would improve there performance.

Hi There,

Yeah, I'm just running the software controller. I have a UAP-AC-LR at the top of my tree with two UAP-AC-Lite devices hanging off it. There is a setting within each AP called "Enable Meshing" so I assume I have a mesh configuration. All APs are on different channels for 2.4 GHz. You can't use different channels with mesh for 5 GHz as I understand it as that's what the mesh talks over, right? I haven't done a firmware update for about 6 months and I can see there is one sitting waiting so I will give it a go.

With a device connected to the main AP (which is Ethernet connected to my router) the most I can get is about 80 Mb/s and then on the downstream devices I'm getting barely 10-15 Mb/s. There are obviously some walls etc in the way but even still it's pretty bad. I was hoping some of the more modern mesh systems had better radios to carry a stronger signal downstream maybe?

In saying all this, the most throughput I can get when I turn the AP on on the Vodafone supplied router is also about 80 Mb/s so maybe my internet connection isn't too fast. I haven't got a single device in my house with a RJ45 connection so I can't test the "real" speed of the connection by connecting it directly to the router. But my real issue is with the speed on the downstream APs so that's why I was looking at something new.

PJ48

295 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3097876 30-Jun-2023 18:15

eonsim:

Do you have a Ubiquity software controller or compute key running? With out an active controller they are just AP's not a mesh system (which AP type do you have?). Also have you updated the firmware on the AP's, and tried repositioning them so they get better signal?

If you can't get decent performance out of modern Ubiquiti AP's I'm not sure you will do much better with any standard consumer mesh system, without using ethernet backhaul. And if you were going to use ethernet backhaul you might as well set it up for the Unifi APs which would improve there performance.

I am interested in what you mean by this. Are you saying that the performance of my Unifi AP setup somehow works better if there is an always running controller in the background (either on a Cloud Key or a dedicated computer)? I thought I could safely just use the desktop controller software to configure and update, then quit that program, and there was no added functionality, unless you also happened to use one of the Unifi routers?

Delorean

651 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3097877 30-Jun-2023 18:18

Sounds like you are with VF?

If you have Ethernet Backhaul to all the AP’s the the VF supplied X20 Deco are great. Dual Channel AX1800 WiFi 6 and any node can be the main router

If you need wireless backhaul then a tri band mesh might be better

Referral Link: | Quic Broadband (use R142206E0L2CR for free setup)

broonie27

109 posts

Master Geek

#3097890 30-Jun-2023 18:28

Delorean:
Sounds like you are with VF?

If you have Ethernet Backhaul to all the AP’s the the VF supplied X20 Deco are great. Dual Channel AX1800 WiFi 6 and any node can be the main router

If you need wireless backhaul then a tri band mesh might be better

Yeah, I'm on Vodafone HTC. Not sure what a X20 Deco is but I've a Huawei router. Can't do ethernet backhaul, hence the need for wireless meshing.

I assume my Ubiquiti gear is dual channel?

Delorean

651 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3097893 30-Jun-2023 18:33

The X20 are free (although you are technically locked in for 24mths)

I just insisted to get three from the outset (they supply two, but you can get three if you ask) and if even after getting the superwifi and it’s still not working correctly. Then you get a $100 credit

If you are not moving from VF in the next 24mths then it’s a good solution

Referral Link: | Quic Broadband (use R142206E0L2CR for free setup)

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eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3097987 30-Jun-2023 18:48

broonie27:

Hi There,

Yeah, I'm just running the software controller. I have a UAP-AC-LR at the top of my tree with two UAP-AC-Lite devices hanging off it. There is a setting within each AP called "Enable Meshing" so I assume I have a mesh configuration. All APs are on different channels for 2.4 GHz. You can't use different channels with mesh for 5 GHz as I understand it as that's what the mesh talks over, right? I haven't done a firmware update for about 6 months and I can see there is one sitting waiting so I will give it a go.

With a device connected to the main AP (which is Ethernet connected to my router) the most I can get is about 80 Mb/s and then on the downstream devices I'm getting barely 10-15 Mb/s. There are obviously some walls etc in the way but even still it's pretty bad. I was hoping some of the more modern mesh systems had better radios to carry a stronger signal downstream maybe?

In saying all this, the most throughput I can get when I turn the AP on on the Vodafone supplied router is also about 80 Mb/s so maybe my internet connection isn't too fast. I haven't got a single device in my house with a RJ45 connection so I can't test the "real" speed of the connection by connecting it directly to the router. But my real issue is with the speed on the downstream APs so that's why I was looking at something new.

With the quality of the equipment you've got the problem is likely a combination of your Internet (for the 80Mb/s) and the local wireless environment (too many devices and networks near you).

First question is what internet are you paying for? Fibre, 100mb, 300mb or 1000mb or something different? On 1000mb you should be able to get at least 300mbps of the gear. Given you get the same off the Vodafone router and the primary access point, the likely issue is the Vodafone router or what ever internet connection you are paying for.

Second is how congested is the local wireless spectrum, in the Unifi software controller there should be an option to scan the wifi channels to see how busy they are. Try that and see how many wifi networks it can detect and which channel has the least or the weakest ones then switch your device to use those channels at least for the 5g to improve the back-haul (if you can). You can also install an app on your phone and try the same thing.

Third is AP placement make sure you've but the two secondary APs in locations that get good signal from the primary AP. For mesh units you do not put the mesh nodes in rooms with bad wireless coverage you put them in the closest location that has good wifi to those areas. One way to do this is unplug the two secondary APs then starting next to your primary AP, on your phone run speedtest.net or fast.com and measure your internet speed. Then move one room in the direction your AP currently is and run the speedtest again. Keep doing this till your speed drops off then move back to the last area where you had a decent internet speed and place the AP there. Repeat for the second AP. If you don't do it this way what happens is you connect to your local AP which is nice an close so very fast (connection speed of say 800mbps, you can check in your phone/laptop wifi settings), but that AP is connected to the main AP at 10mbps because it's so far from the main AP and thus when you connect to the internet you only get the 10mbps because that's the connection the secondary AP has. If you move the secondary AP closer to the main unit to where it say has a 400mbps connection to it, then you go back to the original location and get a 100mbps connection (down from 800) to the secondary when you use the internet you'll get ~100mbps as you are no longer bottle necked by the AP's connection to the primary node.

Given the quality of your hardware you are unlikely to get better results from any standard consumer Mesh system. The limitations are likely a combination of your internet connection, your local wireless environment and your AP placement. If you are living in an apartment building or all your neighbours are running massively powerful wifi systems at full power that means nothing you can do works, then some Wifi 6E routers who use 6Ghz spectrum for backhaul might help. But typically 6Ghz wifi has even less range than 5Ghz and thus you need your AP's to be even closer together.

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3097989 30-Jun-2023 19:03

PJ48:

eonsim:

Do you have a Ubiquity software controller or compute key running? With out an active controller they are just AP's not a mesh system (which AP type do you have?). Also have you updated the firmware on the AP's, and tried repositioning them so they get better signal?

If you can't get decent performance out of modern Ubiquiti AP's I'm not sure you will do much better with any standard consumer mesh system, without using ethernet backhaul. And if you were going to use ethernet backhaul you might as well set it up for the Unifi APs which would improve there performance.

I am interested in what you mean by this. Are you saying that the performance of my Unifi AP setup somehow works better if there is an always running controller in the background (either on a Cloud Key or a dedicated computer)? I thought I could safely just use the desktop controller software to configure and update, then quit that program, and there was no added functionality, unless you also happened to use one of the Unifi routers?

For some AP Mesh based systems certain features require a controller to be running constantly. I don't have Unifi so not sure what the cases is exactly with that system, internet seems to suggest basic mesh should work without a controller once it is set up. I'm not sure about some of the more advanced hand-off, fast-roaming (802.11r, 802.11v, 802.11k etc), captive portals, or automated channel optimization, some of those probably require a hardware/software controller to always be running.

broonie27

109 posts

Master Geek

#3097990 30-Jun-2023 19:05

eonsim:

With the quality of the equipment you've got the problem is likely a combination of your Internet (for the 80Mb/s) and the local wireless environment (too many devices and networks near you).

First question is what internet are you paying for? Fibre, 100mb, 300mb or 1000mb or something different? On 1000mb you should be able to get at least 300mbps of the gear. Given you get the same off the Vodafone router and the primary access point, the likely issue is the Vodafone router or what ever internet connection you are paying for.

Second is how congested is the local wireless spectrum, in the Unifi software controller there should be an option to scan the wifi channels to see how busy they are. Try that and see how many wifi networks it can detect and which channel has the least or the weakest ones then switch your device to use those channels at least for the 5g to improve the back-haul (if you can). You can also install an app on your phone and try the same thing.

Third is AP placement make sure you've but the two secondary APs in locations that get good signal from the primary AP. For mesh units you do not put the mesh nodes in rooms with bad wireless coverage you put them in the closest location that has good wifi to those areas. One way to do this is unplug the two secondary APs then starting next to your primary AP, on your phone run speedtest.net or fast.com and measure your internet speed. Then move one room in the direction your AP currently is and run the speedtest again. Keep doing this till your speed drops off then move back to the last area where you had a decent internet speed and place the AP there. Repeat for the second AP. If you don't do it this way what happens is you connect to your local AP which is nice an close so very fast (connection speed of say 800mbps, you can check in your phone/laptop wifi settings), but that AP is connected to the main AP at 10mbps because it's so far from the main AP and thus when you connect to the internet you only get the 10mbps because that's the connection the secondary AP has. If you move the secondary AP closer to the main unit to where it say has a 400mbps connection to it, then you go back to the original location and get a 100mbps connection (down from 800) to the secondary when you use the internet you'll get ~100mbps as you are no longer bottle necked by the AP's connection to the primary node.

Given the quality of your hardware you are unlikely to get better results from any standard consumer Mesh system. The limitations are likely a combination of your internet connection, your local wireless environment and your AP placement. If you are living in an apartment building or all your neighbours are running massively powerful wifi systems at full power that means nothing you can do works, then some Wifi 6E routers who use 6Ghz spectrum for backhaul might help. But typically 6Ghz wifi has even less range than 5Ghz and thus you need your AP's to be even closer together.

Thanks for that, I'll give all that a go.

I'm on HFC which I believe is supposed to have a max speed of around 500-600 Mb/s

I've just run a firmware upgrade and now I'm getting 120 Mb/s on 5 GHz but only 50 Mb/s on 2.4 GHz. This is contrary to what I expected as I thought the 5 Ghz frequency was used mostly for communicating between the APs.

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3098020 30-Jun-2023 19:24

broonie27:

Thanks for that, I'll give all that a go.

I'm on HFC which I believe is supposed to have a max speed of around 500-600 Mb/s

I've just run a firmware upgrade and now I'm getting 120 Mb/s on 5 GHz but only 50 Mb/s on 2.4 GHz. This is contrary to what I expected as I thought the 5 Ghz frequency was used mostly for communicating between the APs.

5Ghz will always be faster than 2.4Ghz maxium theoretical bandwidth for a typical 5Ghz AC channel is ~833Mb/s, for a 2.4Ghz N channel the max is 144Mb/s. The one advantage that 2.4Ghz is the range the signal travels 2-3x further so when you are further away from the AP's or have more walls in the way the 2.4Ghz can some times do better. For example if you are 10m and a couple of walls away from an AP the 5Ghz signal may be so weak you may only get 10mb/s while the stronger 2.4ghz signal may give you 30mb/s. 5Ghz is typically used to communicate between nodes because it is much faster than 2.4ghz, the problem is it has less range so you need to have the devices closer together typically within 10m and no more than 2 walls. Depending on the construction of your house it may need to be less than that (try moving the APs as I suggested earlier).

HFC should be giving you upto 800mb/s down and 100mb/s up. If you are only getting a max of 120mb/s sitting next to the router on both the Unifi network and the original Vodafone router 5Ghz wifi then I'd suggest rebooting your HFC modem/router or giving Vodafone a ring and asking why you are getting such crap speeds, maybe there are some setting they can change or possibly you have an older HFC modem that needs to be replaced to get the faster speeds. OR find/borrow a laptop, desktop or console with a gigabit ethernet port and plug it directly in then test the speed and see what you get.

MarkM536

309 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3098390 1-Jul-2023 17:02

broonie27:

Yeah, I'm just running the software controller.

I have a UAP-AC-LR at the top of my tree with two UAP-AC-Lite devices hanging off it.

There is a setting within each AP called "Enable Meshing" so I assume I have a mesh configuration.

There's you experience to judge other mesh systems.

A 'mesh' system is just relaying over multiple WiFi connections.

If data gets lost when it's sent over WiFi, the transmitting device needs to re-send that data. That sacrifices speed and time.

As little WiFi links as possible between device and router is best.

broonie27

109 posts

Master Geek

#3098726 2-Jul-2023 17:42

eonsim:

5Ghz will always be faster than 2.4Ghz maxium theoretical bandwidth for a typical 5Ghz AC channel is ~833Mb/s, for a 2.4Ghz N channel the max is 144Mb/s. The one advantage that 2.4Ghz is the range the signal travels 2-3x further so when you are further away from the AP's or have more walls in the way the 2.4Ghz can some times do better. For example if you are 10m and a couple of walls away from an AP the 5Ghz signal may be so weak you may only get 10mb/s while the stronger 2.4ghz signal may give you 30mb/s. 5Ghz is typically used to communicate between nodes because it is much faster than 2.4ghz, the problem is it has less range so you need to have the devices closer together typically within 10m and no more than 2 walls. Depending on the construction of your house it may need to be less than that (try moving the APs as I suggested earlier).

HFC should be giving you upto 800mb/s down and 100mb/s up. If you are only getting a max of 120mb/s sitting next to the router on both the Unifi network and the original Vodafone router 5Ghz wifi then I'd suggest rebooting your HFC modem/router or giving Vodafone a ring and asking why you are getting such crap speeds, maybe there are some setting they can change or possibly you have an older HFC modem that needs to be replaced to get the faster speeds. OR find/borrow a laptop, desktop or console with a gigabit ethernet port and plug it directly in then test the speed and see what you get.

Hi Again,

So I bought an USB-C to RJ45 connector and tested with that on my laptop. I can get ~580 Mb/s down and 100mb/s up over ethernet. So I made a couple of tweaks on my main wired AP - on 5 GHz I changed the channel width to VHT80 and the transmit power to high (as per the Ubiquiti forum) and I can now get ~430 Mb/s on that frequency when sitting right next to the AP itself. The downstream APs aren't quite so good, i can only get about 40 Mb/s but better than the 10-15 i was getting before.

On 2.4 Ghz I made some tweaks also - change the transmit power to medium (again as per Ubiquiti forum) but not much change. The max I can get from the main AP is 75 Mb/s down and on the downsteam APs it's about 35 Mb/s also.

Not so bad I guess.

RunningMan

8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3098744 2-Jul-2023 19:15

High transmit power will likely overpower a device sitting right next to the AP. Try reducing the power settings and see how you go.

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3098773 2-Jul-2023 20:37

broonie27:

Hi Again,

So I bought an USB-C to RJ45 connector and tested with that on my laptop. I can get ~580 Mb/s down and 100mb/s up over ethernet. So I made a couple of tweaks on my main wired AP - on 5 GHz I changed the channel width to VHT80 and the transmit power to high (as per the Ubiquiti forum) and I can now get ~430 Mb/s on that frequency when sitting right next to the AP itself. The downstream APs aren't quite so good, i can only get about 40 Mb/s but better than the 10-15 i was getting before.

On 2.4 Ghz I made some tweaks also - change the transmit power to medium (again as per Ubiquiti forum) but not much change. The max I can get from the main AP is 75 Mb/s down and on the downsteam APs it's about 35 Mb/s also.

Not so bad I guess.

Are you connecting to the downstream AP's on 5GHz?

So >400Mbps on 5Ghz is good, that's pretty close to a realistic max for AC equipment. To improve the downstream speeds it will probably come down to repositioning the APs. APs like to be up high (ideally above head height) with as little as possible between them and the master node. Try moving one of the secondary APs one room closer to the primary AP (even if it's up against the wall of the room it's just come out of) that should help a bit.

The other thing to check would be how congested the 5GHz channel is and see if you can move to a less congested one. In the Unifi software controller there is an option to scan for wifi networks. Do that then check to see if you are on the 5Ghz channel with the least other networks or the highest quality rating. If not try changing to that.

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