A really stupid fibre question

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enzedone

63 posts

Master Geek

#306814 23-Aug-2023 16:45

Hello everyone

I currently run copper to a dedicated router. Have been told I must change over, but have issues.

limited to no access in the ceiling due to steel frame trusses.

Question: Why can’t you just run fibre to the house near the existing entry point then connect this to the copper wire that runs to my existing router. I’m not interested in sexy speeds. Currently happy with them.
Now I have to have my garden dug up, a wire wrapping around the house and a conduit down the wall to a power supply inside by the floor.
There is no phone junction box that joins all the phone wires from the bedrooms anywhere in the house, so it’s possible it’s up in the ceiling. My question I put to Chorus guy was; why can’t you just do a continuity test to see if that wire is running directly to my router? If so just hook up to that from the garage where it comes in from the street?

Never had phones running from any of these phone lines.

Im lost.

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472 posts

Ultimate Geek

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EMT (R)

#3119484 23-Aug-2023 16:56

Chorus have certain standards they have to meet for an installation to be 'valid'.

While you may be happy with a half arxed install.
The next person who ownes your house would complain bitterly, that the install was substandard and blame Chorus.

It's best for chorus to do it legally compliant in the first place.

RunningMan

8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3119493 23-Aug-2023 17:29

Fibre and a copper twisted pair are two totally different things, you can't just join one to the other. It's kinda like trying to connect your garden hose to a power point - they are just very different things that won't connect.

Depending on the house age and what cabling is in there, it's probably not much use for bringing an internet connection into the house with fibre; it doesn't matter what speed requirement you have, but do check my comment below.

There's a couple of parts to a fibre instal:
1) Getting it to the ourside of the building from the street. This is usually done the same way the existing copper phone line comes in - either underground or overhead - and terminates in a passive plastic box on the outside of the house.
2) From this outside box to an inside active box (i.e. it needs power). This is called an ONT and is what your router will then plug into. Chorus subcontractors often want to take the quickest approach to this part and you may have to work with them a little to get a result you are happy with, including the route the internal cable takes. If you are up to some DIY then they may be able to leave a length with you to run to where you want it, then come back to do the termination.

Do you know what cabling is in the house now? If it's steel framed, there's a chance the cable is a new enough spec that it could be used for the link between the ONT and your router, meaning the ONT and router go in different parts of the house?

An alternative is a fixed wireless connection instead if your data requirements are more modest - no fibre install required as it uses the cellphone network.

Bung

6477 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119494 23-Aug-2023 17:29

Does it have to be fibre? Wireless broadband could be an option with no outside digging if the mobile towers are close enough.

cyril7

9058 posts

Uber Geek

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Subscriber

#3119498 23-Aug-2023 17:49

Hi what type of phone wiring is it, can you open an outlet and provide a photo detailing the cable.

Cyril

SomeoneSomewhere

1802 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3119509 23-Aug-2023 18:31

It sounds like you're describing https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn/network-technology/fibre-to-the-curb-explained-fttc' target='_blank'>Fibre to the Curb, which NBN in Australia is doing in some places. Essentially, you stick the ONT in a pit by the street, and the box in the house is a DSL modem with power injection to power the ONT via the phone wires.

This isn't totally terrible, but it's not great.

Electronics outside, below grade or on a pole are subject to water, condensation, and massive temperature swings, which isn't good for reliability.
The modem inside needs to be a special-sauce NBN-supplied one with the power injection equipment, so there's now twice as many boxes to go wrong. Still need a router from the ISP.
The copper wire into your house is still potentially 50+ years old and in terrible condition. 100Mb/s is reasonable if you have a good copper line. If not, it might be no better than ADSL. Anyone wanting gigabit, much less hyperfibre, is going to need to get fibre installed anyway. Remember standard speeds are now 300/100.

My question I put to Chorus guy was; why can’t you just do a continuity test to see if that wire is running directly to my router? If so just hook up to that from the garage where it comes in from the street?

Continuity only tells you that it's connected or not. It doesn't tell you whether anything else is connected - but it sounds like you know something else is connected. A TDR might tell you, but Chorus fibre techs probably don't carry copper TDR gear.

It would need to be ethernet cable used as phone wiring, not actual phone cable (so built post-2000-ish). It would also need to be a direct link, no joints. Ethernet is picky and generally either works great or fails. If you're lucky and there's very specific faults, it might link at 100 instead of 1000.

enzedone

63 posts

Master Geek

#3119517 23-Aug-2023 18:56

let’s hope this works

Was thinking about going wireless, but was worried about what happens when selling the house.
In a few years time will they charge a ridiculous fee to then come back and install?

I remember getting a quote of $11,000 to install fibre when moved in ten years ago.

SomeoneSomewhere

1802 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3119518 23-Aug-2023 19:03

Not sure what you're expecting to work there. Ethernet never will.

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enzedone

63 posts

Master Geek

#3119520 23-Aug-2023 19:06

Here is the cable for the Router

enzedone

63 posts

Master Geek

#3119521 23-Aug-2023 19:08

was just enquiring as I was once told you don’t have to run fibre all the way to the inside of your house. I could terminate via some sort of junction and then run existing wire to the router. But obviously that was all hogwash.

The wire is all 10 years old, same as house.

SomeoneSomewhere

1802 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3119529 23-Aug-2023 19:42

You can put the ONT (near) where fibre enters the house, then run Ethernet to the router. You would need to actually terminate the Cat-whatever cable properly for Ethernet duty - all four pairs to one jack. Your picture does not show the other two pairs in the cable, and we don't know where the cable goes. If you can fix those issues, sure.

RunningMan

8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3119532 23-Aug-2023 20:19

enzedone:

Can't tell completely from that photo, but if there's another 2 twisted pairs tucked up there, then it could probably be terminated to run ethernet through it. The problem as you've already raised though is where the cables run to/from. They'd need to be traced to determine if that is feasible.

cyril7

9058 posts

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#3119533 23-Aug-2023 20:21

Hi can you take a photo of the cable seath before the orange and blue pairs are broken out, just trying to identify what cable it is.

Cyril

Bung

6477 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119534 23-Aug-2023 20:24

There may not be another 2 pairs. In the 90s MM Cables made 2 pair telephone cable for Telecom using the same twisted pairs they used in Cat 5 cable. The fibre terminal (ONT) has to be inside. The router could be alongside unless it needs to be elsewhere for better wifi coverage of the house:

enzedone

63 posts

Master Geek

#3119541 23-Aug-2023 20:58

yes there are two sets of cabling. The two pair you see have both come off two seperate blue cables.

The full accompaniment of wires are there, just not in the pic.

RunningMan

8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3119543 23-Aug-2023 21:07

So brown/blue/green/orange pairs?

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