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Topic # 60335 24-Apr-2010 17:30
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I want to run some cat5 cable up a wall, through a ceiling space and then down another wall but I'm not sure what the NZ laws are around doing in-wall cabling - is some sort of qualification required? 
The reason I'm hesitant is because this thread http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/845306.html seems to say you can't do it in Australia (and we seem to share these laws???), I can't load the PDF they're referring too so I can't confirm that.
I've looked through the wiring rules FAQ (http://www.wiringrules.standards.org.au/Documents/Wiring_Rules_FAQs_March_2010.pdf) which seems to apply to both NZ and Australia but didn't see anything relevant (might just be for electricity cables?).

If it is legal to do myself, does anyone know where I can get a wall plate with a cat5 socket in it?  Ideally I would like a wall plate with both a cat5 socket and a standard phone line socket (I want to run my data cable where the phone cable already is).

Thanks,
Kelvin.

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  Reply # 322419 24-Apr-2010 17:44
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AFAIK it's not illegal, but would keep it away from power cables for obvious reasons. There is no power as such going through the Ethernet like there are with power cabling so not much can go wrong. My boss has put Cat 6 throughout his place so he can fit wifi points, and hasn't needed to get someone in to do it.




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  Reply # 322423 24-Apr-2010 18:05
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No its not illegal to run network cable through your house.

I have done it through mine and centralised everything to a patch panel for both phone and data.

I used Dynamix RJ45 keystones with PDL adapters and their 600 faceplates. You can get these from Mastertrade. 

Depending on how much rewiring you are doing you can run cat5e for your phone as well.

This is what I put together for my house from help from others on the forum
http://myhomereno.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/structured-cabling-getting-wired/

Its working brilliantly!!

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 322449 24-Apr-2010 19:52
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It's prefectly legal.

In Australia the rules prohibit DIY electrical and data wiring, that is not the case here where electrican work can be done (with some very strict provisions) and anybody can do data or phone cabling, which is part of the reason people have such shoddy broadband with all the DIY phonejack installs that are done incorrectly.

Faceplates and keystores are available from any electrical wholesaler like Mastertrade or Corys. Also forget the BT jack, just make everything RJ45 so you can patch data or phone. BT jacks no longer meet recommended guidelines for home wiring, everything should be RJ45.

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  Reply # 322543 25-Apr-2010 08:05
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Hi, as the others say its not illegal in NZ to do your own data/phone or TV cabling, Australia is significantly different and the cable police on Whirlpool are very active with some amusing forum outcomes :)

As for basic guides, in the Hometheatre forum you will find a sticky thread that outlines the basics and Steve has a good blog.

But the basics are:

Keep ELV (Extra Low Voltage cables, ie <50V Data/phone/TV/Speaker/Security) 50mm ore more from LV(230V) cables, this is a mandatory requirement, and 300mm or more is advised where possible to minimse the risk of interference.

Dont ever put ELV terminations on the same faceplate or in the same flush box as LV.

Ensure a solid barrier (stud, noggin or other frame member) seperates flush boxs carrying LV and ELV, alternatively they should be seperated by 200mm or more.

Dont put a ELV and LV cable through a common hole.

@Steve, as I understand it the RJ45 thing only applies if a house has been wired as per PTC106, ie in a structured cable layout. For a house that is wired with just a couple of phone points, the BTs are still the prefered option.

In my view, if any builder builds a new house with just two phone points (or less) then there should be similar penalties applied by local council as if he were to dump a toilet into the storm water.

Cyril

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  Reply # 322551 25-Apr-2010 08:32
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FYI there is a new premises wiring guide that was launched several weeks ago by the TCF. The aim is to try and make this the minimum spec for every new house built in NZ. This includes the PTC106 Telepermit specs written by Telecom.

http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html


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  Reply # 322555 25-Apr-2010 08:47
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Yes, I was asked several months ago to pass comment on that document by several committee members.

Cyril



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 322583 25-Apr-2010 10:20
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses.  Looks like I'm going to be getting dirty in the ceiling space!

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  Reply # 322963 26-Apr-2010 11:49
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sbiddle: FYI there is a new premises wiring guide that was launched several weeks ago by the TCF. The aim is to try and make this the minimum spec for every new house built in NZ. This includes the PTC106 Telepermit specs written by Telecom.

http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html



I wonder how quickly those requirements will filter through the building industry? We are in the initial stages of building at the moment, and most companies we talked to only supplied (in their standard spec price) 2 phone jacks +  2 TV outlets. 'Smart wiring' (patch panel with 5 data outlets) is an additional $1700. It looks like this type of wiring is still a luxury item priced at a premium rather than something that should be going into homes as standard. While future proofing is important, I struggle to see the incentive for anyone without an immediate current need (e.g. a home network) to go for something like this at that price.

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  Reply # 322968 26-Apr-2010 12:00
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MG1976:
sbiddle: FYI there is a new premises wiring guide that was launched several weeks ago by the TCF. The aim is to try and make this the minimum spec for every new house built in NZ. This includes the PTC106 Telepermit specs written by Telecom.

http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html



I wonder how quickly those requirements will filter through the building industry? We are in the initial stages of building at the moment, and most companies we talked to only supplied (in their standard spec price) 2 phone jacks +  2 TV outlets. 'Smart wiring' (patch panel with 5 data outlets) is an additional $1700. It looks like this type of wiring is still a luxury item priced at a premium rather than something that should be going into homes as standard. While future proofing is important, I struggle to see the incentive for anyone without an immediate current need (e.g. a home network) to go for something like this at that price.


This type of wiring should have been standard in every household for the last 10 years. It's been 10 years since the PTC106 spec came out and 10 years since Telecom told people that the way they were doing things needed to change. Unfortunately you still have electricians and "experts" going around installing daisy chained BT jacks in a house without realising how bad it is. These guys have to upskill regularly when changes to wiring regulations come into effect and yet don't seem to care about data/telephone or realise the problems they are creating for the future.

 As to if and when it will ever become part of the building code is anybody's guess.

People don't realise that things like fibre to the home is a very expensive exercise without correct cabling, if you don't have something like this now you're never going to be able to take full advantage of the full benefits without major rewiring work which will cost a lot more. If you've got a concrete pad running new wiring in is virtually impossible.

One of the other issues is also the cost, the reality is $1700 is excessive for what is essentially somewhere in the vicinity of ~$400 worth of hardware for the average household.

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  Reply # 323032 26-Apr-2010 14:06
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+1 to Steve's response

Cyril

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  Reply # 323223 26-Apr-2010 20:19
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MG1976:
sbiddle: FYI there is a new premises wiring guide that was launched several weeks ago by the TCF. The aim is to try and make this the minimum spec for every new house built in NZ. This includes the PTC106 Telepermit specs written by Telecom.

http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html



I wonder how quickly those requirements will filter through the building industry? We are in the initial stages of building at the moment, and most companies we talked to only supplied (in their standard spec price) 2 phone jacks +  2 TV outlets. 'Smart wiring' (patch panel with 5 data outlets) is an additional $1700. It looks like this type of wiring is still a luxury item priced at a premium rather than something that should be going into homes as standard. While future proofing is important, I struggle to see the incentive for anyone without an immediate current need (e.g. a home network) to go for something like this at that price.


How on earth did they get to $1700?

Does that include switching gear and a cabinet? 

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  Reply # 323277 26-Apr-2010 22:10
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No it costs that much because when you build on a development they are the only ones allowed onsite till final handover so can charge whatever the hell they like.

Price up a nice countertop thru the builders vs a kitchen place and you will see why so many new houses have the kitchen bashed out and a new one go in before the people even move into the place.

Same for paint colours, beige, cream or off white are all you get too choose without paying a fortune because any changes to that affect the ability to resell if you dont come thru at completion time, so the amount they charge you is so much more to cover the cost of changing the nice colours back to beige so they can put it on the market.

Also the sparkys are all stressing over a total change to the wiring regs that happened on the 1st of april that they were not prepared for since they seem to think they dont have any need to bother upskilling.




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  Reply # 323401 27-Apr-2010 09:13
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wazzageek:
MG1976:
sbiddle: FYI there is a new premises wiring guide that was launched several weeks ago by the TCF. The aim is to try and make this the minimum spec for every new house built in NZ. This includes the PTC106 Telepermit specs written by Telecom.

http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/dc07abcd-21f8-4288-b55b-6f861bdd4d02.html



I wonder how quickly those requirements will filter through the building industry? We are in the initial stages of building at the moment, and most companies we talked to only supplied (in their standard spec price) 2 phone jacks +  2 TV outlets. 'Smart wiring' (patch panel with 5 data outlets) is an additional $1700. It looks like this type of wiring is still a luxury item priced at a premium rather than something that should be going into homes as standard. While future proofing is important, I struggle to see the incentive for anyone without an immediate current need (e.g. a home network) to go for something like this at that price.


How on earth did they get to $1700?

Does that include switching gear and a cabinet? 


Nope, just the patch panel and network cabling/ports. These building outfits (Jennian/Golden Homes/Peter Ray etc) are based very much on the standard spec for everything, because they have negotiated a very good price for those products/services in bulk. As soon as you start negotiating anything outside of that, things start getting difficult, you get funny looks from the consultant, and they have to go to their pricing person who then has to talk to someone else or a different supplier. And then because it may be a one off and there are 2 or 3 companies involved each taking their margin, prices escalate very quickly. That's why I mentioned it in this post, as it appears that this type of wiring is not standard amongst the building companies, and may not even be asked for all that often based on the price they are quoting.

I would love to organise it myself, but there is the problem of access to the site when the gib is off and if they would even allow that kind of thing (with OSH issues and building consents etc).

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  Reply # 323882 27-Apr-2010 21:13
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They dont allow access unless you have paid for the house up front IME.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 325686 1-May-2010 23:13
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Wow you arent allowed into your own house until handover? Well you could ask them to leave all the cables coming out of the wall so you can put up your own cabinet later with patch panel and modem etc. Just make sure you specify at least 1 or 2 metres of spare cable left hanging out of the wall. You could always deliver your hardware to the company so their electrician can mount it on the wall for you. I recon its a good option to use RJ11 jacks for the phone, so you never need to wonder which is data and phone. Keystone jacks are really common but the clipsal ones look nice and can be mounted horizontally... Remember TV might need an ethernet jack in future too, depending on who wins the FTTP contract in your area. So will eventually need access for another cable to be run in to replace the phone line.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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