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Topic # 65101 29-Jul-2010 15:08
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I’ve wired the house with 2 cat5e cables going to every room in a star configuration. These go to a box in the roof, where I have a master splitter/patch panel and room for modem/router at a later date. We’re part way through renovating and decided to get the phone on, so we can go back to wired broadband and enjoy ADSL2 speeds when they arrive next year.

I located the phone lines when we moved in; they travel underground until they reach the corner of the house, then the wire ran under the house towards the back door. As it wasn’t connected to anything, I ran up the wall and into the roof; where I have my box of tricks.

This is what the cable looks like (Yellow/Black & Brown/White)


Phone Line


From my research these are two pairs; allowing two separate phone lines.


So Chorus came out last week and supposedly activated the phone line and gave it the thumbs up. I’m getting 48v on the Yellow/Black pair, which I’d assumed were reserved for line two. However when I connect a phone to the yellow/black pair; all I get is what’s known as a “Fast Engaged Tone”. If you call the phone, you can hear it ringing but doesn’t ring at my end.

From what I’ve read, as the phone enters the house it should terminate at a master phone socket. I’m wondering if the master socket (with capacitor), is required for line testing and/or to make the phone ring. Or is it completely redundant in a 2-wire phone connection?

I have Chorus coming out on Monday to investigate but don’t want to waste there time (and my money) if I’m just missing something simple. Any ideas?

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  Reply # 358481 29-Jul-2010 15:59
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DIYDan:

From my research these are two pairs; allowing two separate phone lines.


So Chorus came out last week and supposedly activated the phone line and gave it the thumbs up. I’m getting 48v on the Yellow/Black pair, which I’d assumed were reserved for line two. However when I connect a phone to the yellow/black pair; all I get is what’s known as a “Fast Engaged Tone”. If you call the phone, you can hear it ringing but doesn’t ring at my end.



Yellow/Black is Pair 1. If Chorus came out what did they do? It wouldn't be normal to leave underground unterminated. You may have intact tone only useful for calling 111 and 123. Try calling 123 on the line. They should be able to see what number you're on.

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  Reply # 358494 29-Jul-2010 16:12
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Is that the tone to indicate the line is disconnected (no number assigned at the exchange)

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 358519 29-Jul-2010 16:31
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oxnsox: Is that the tone to indicate the line is disconnected (no number assigned at the exchange)

I think you're right. We get that noise on our naked dsl line when we plug a phone in directly.

OP: Maybe chours havent given you a phone number yet but have installed the line?



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  Reply # 358523 29-Jul-2010 16:33
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oxnsox:
If Chorus came out what did they do? It wouldn't be normal to leave underground unterminated.

Was told they were fiddling at the end of the driveway for 30mins or more. Inside on of those grey telecom tubes, the one's that stick out of the ground with the rounded top. I assume at some point the wires were terminated (at installation). Someone but them and left them under the house.

oxnsox:
 You may have intact tone only useful for calling 111 and 123. Try calling 123 on the line. They should be able to see what number you're on.

Tried 123... Nothing.

oxnsox: Is that the tone to indicate the line is disconnected (no number assigned at the exchange)


The best example I could find was this (can't post embeded links);

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorder_tone

Hopefully it's something Chorus can find/fix on their lines, and all be be good on Monday.


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  Reply # 358636 29-Jul-2010 18:29
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Is the box in your roof easily accessible? The idea with a patch panel is that you can easily change a jack to different service whenever you like, so normally standing room and space/lighting to get at the box. Will be really inconvenient if its hard to change things around later, or get into the roof space to reboot your modem for example.

If its too late and you decide there's room for improvement, perhaps run a bundle of Cat5e cables (like a "trunk") back to a more accessible intermediate point thats convienent to locate the modem and any further gear you add in future like voip etc.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^



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  Reply # 358679 29-Jul-2010 19:06
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webwat: Is the box in your roof easily accessible? The idea with a patch panel is that you can easily change a jack to different service whenever you like, so normally standing room and space/lighting to get at the box. Will be really inconvenient if its hard to change things around later, or get into the roof space to reboot your modem for example.


You're right it's not ideal in the roof. It works for me at the moment and I could always pull the fuse to re-boot the modem; but that's not ideal.

I've only wired two cat5e cables to the kitchen and office at this point, so it's not going to be hard to relocate the box. I had thought about flush mounting a box in the hall, about a meter away from the fuse box. When we come to JIB the hall I could run the phone line back under the house and up the wall. 240v power would be simple; you can have 4 outlets per fuse, so I could tap into the hall/office line.

Something to plan for next year! Cool




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  Reply # 363334 4-Aug-2010 22:48
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You can only have 2 outlets per fuse, but if you have fuses you should worry about the electrics before you start sorting out data install.




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  Reply # 363416 5-Aug-2010 07:59
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Yes we dont use fuses anymore, MCBs are what you should have, you can get MCB inserts to fit old ceramic fuse backs carriers, much safer. A fuse can sit on 150% current for hours on end without blinking an eye.

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  Reply # 363521 5-Aug-2010 10:31
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richms: You can only have 2 outlets per fuse, but if you have fuses you should worry about the electrics before you start sorting out data install.


Do you have a source for this statement?

I know we have more than 2 outlets on most of our circuits.  We have had an outlet added recently and the electrician did not check to see what else was on the circuit (it was to power the starter on the gas stove so not exactly a high current expected)

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  Reply # 363526 5-Aug-2010 10:36
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Graemeh, are you talking fuses or MCBs, most modern houses and any wiring upgrades a sparkies does will see him fit an MCB to the circuit and discard fuses's,, that increases the number of outlets allowed. Also any new work or changes to a circuit now requires an RCD is fitted to that circuit.

Fuses (bit or fuse wire that blows when too much current causes it to break) is a nasty solution and no longer to be used, MCBs are what you should use.

Cyril

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  Reply # 363914 5-Aug-2010 21:11
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graemeh:
richms: You can only have 2 outlets per fuse, but if you have fuses you should worry about the electrics before you start sorting out data install.


Do you have a source for this statement?

I know we have more than 2 outlets on most of our circuits.  We have had an outlet added recently and the electrician did not check to see what else was on the circuit (it was to power the starter on the gas stove so not exactly a high current expected)


That was the whole reason that sparkys had to tie the retrofit breakers into the sockets when they exctended the circuits.

A fuse will sit on twice its rated current for a very long time before breaking, limiting to 2 outlets means that its not likly to overheat the wire in the process. However there are loads of houses where people have DIY added more outlets off circuits and not upgraded the protection to a MCB.

As for the source, it was in the old wiring regs, but I threw all that stuff out about 5 years back when I decided that I wasnt going to get into it. After seeing the fallout from the april fools new regs, I _KNOW_ that was the right choice ;)




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  Reply # 364166 6-Aug-2010 12:07
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cyril7: Graemeh, are you talking fuses or MCBs, most modern houses and any wiring upgrades a sparkies does will see him fit an MCB to the circuit and discard fuses's,, that increases the number of outlets allowed. Also any new work or changes to a circuit now requires an RCD is fitted to that circuit.

Fuses (bit or fuse wire that blows when too much current causes it to break) is a nasty solution and no longer to be used, MCBs are what you should use.

Cyril


We have MCBs.  We were doing something a while ago, I can't exactly remember what but I got our friendly sparky to replace the entire fuse panel with a modern MCB based panel.


richms: That was the whole reason that sparkys had to tie the retrofit breakers into the sockets when they exctended the circuits.

A fuse will sit on twice its rated current for a very long time before breaking, limiting to 2 outlets means that its not likly to overheat the wire in the process. However there are loads of houses where people have DIY added more outlets off circuits and not upgraded the protection to a MCB.

As for the source, it was in the old wiring regs, but I threw all that stuff out about 5 years back when I decided that I wasnt going to get into it. After seeing the fallout from the april fools new regs, I _KNOW_ that was the right choice ;)


I guess nobody paid much attention to the old regs.  When we bought the house it already had more than 2 outlets on pretty much all circuits and was using the old wire based fuse setup.

We've had our dodgy wiring sorted out since then though so it's all safe now.  The most amazine one I found was a power point that wasn't working.  It wasn't working because the sparky had not ever attached it to the wire.  The wire was live though, it was attached into the house wiring at the other end.

We still have a light switch that doesn't appear to do anything.  I must get it disconnected one day.



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  Reply # 364305 6-Aug-2010 15:43
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Turned out to be a fault at the exchange. Chorus ended up coming out on Sunday.

These are about the best speeds I'm getting at the moment. Hopefully when the exchange gets upgraded ADSL2 will make a difference.





From about 7:30pm download speeds seem to drop to about half.

At worse it's twice as fast as Woosh Wireless, at best three or four times faster. Loving the speeds; no waiting for YouTube videos to buffer. Some of my downloads have been hitting a steady 300kb/sec, which might seem slow to some but it's a whole new experience for me.

Any ideas for tracking down bottle necks (confident home wiring it good), or increasing my ping?

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  Reply # 364323 6-Aug-2010 16:20
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that is probably a damned good speed for Woosh.
They are known as being the worst of the worst.

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