Wireless solution bypass modem functions

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Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#74910 10-Jan-2011 12:27

Ive recently received the free wireless modem/router from telecom Thomson TG585v8 and have plugged it in to find that i recieve a higher sync rate using my old modem. However i would like to use the wireless on the new thomson as the old modem doesnt have it. So my question is, is it possible to use my old modem to connect to the internet as have the thompson as a wireless router and bypass the modem functions? Sorry if ive confused the language with the terms modem and router.

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563 posts

Ultimate Geek

#425722 10-Jan-2011 12:34

Short answer: No

Longer answer: It may be technically possible, but will most likely be quite tricky to achieve as the Thomson device is an integrated modem/router so it will be difficult to seperate out the router function from the modem function.

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#425734 10-Jan-2011 13:08

Generally speaking yes.

The simplest way to be able to use it not as a modem or router but instead as a wireless access point - purely to bridge your wireless and wired network - is to disable DHCP on the Thomson and set it up with a non-conflicting static LAN IP (so you can still manage it).

It should work fine by then connecting your old modem into one of the LAN ports.

I have done this a few times and currently have a Dynalink RTA1320 connected to my WNDR3700 which, while it has the whole nine yards for routing, etc., is only used for it's wireless access point (bit of a waste, really, but I wanted a good Dual-band N router)

Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#425736 10-Jan-2011 13:13

Damo-K: Generally speaking yes.

The simplest way to be able to use it not as a modem or router but instead as a wireless access point - purely to bridge your wireless and wired network - is to disable DHCP on the Thomson and set it up with a non-conflicting static LAN IP (so you can still manage it).

It should work fine by then connecting your old modem into one of the LAN ports.

I have done this a few times and currently have a Dynalink RTA1320 connected to my WNDR3700 which, while it has the whole nine yards for routing, etc., is only used for it's wireless access point (bit of a waste, really, but I wanted a good Dual-band N router)

If i do this i wont be able to connect to it via cable will i, wireless only?

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#425738 10-Jan-2011 13:19

That model TG585v8 has four ethernet ports so you can use the other three to connect devices via network cable. If your old modem has spare LAN ports too, you will be able to use those as well. If you start thinking of the Thomson as a network switch with wireless instead of a modem/router with wireless the problem becomes a lot simpler.

Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#425742 10-Jan-2011 13:27

Damo-K: That model TG585v8 has four ethernet ports so you can use the other three to connect devices via network cable. If your old modem has spare LAN ports too, you will be able to use those as well. If you start thinking of the Thomson as a network switch with wireless instead of a modem/router with wireless the problem becomes a lot simpler.

Ok that sounds like what i want. How exactly would i go about implementing this?

Jaxson

8041 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#425759 10-Jan-2011 14:28

Philica:
Ok that sounds like what i want. How exactly would i go about implementing this?

+1 ! I have a friend looking to do basically just that to improve the wireless reception in their house. Seems older 1920-1930's type matchlined houses don't go too well with wireless, be it computer or AV senders etc etc.

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#425766 10-Jan-2011 14:54

The only device that will need configuring is the TG585v8 - hopefully the interface is vaguely similar to the TG789vn as I only have access to this model (and I can't find a thorough manual just at this moment). Your mileage may very quite a lot and if does differ, bear in mind this interface goes to great efforts to hide the options to re-configure stuff like the LAN settings.

Disconnect the Thomson from any network or DSL line and only connect a single computer.

Once you have access to the Thomson interface, go into the interface and choose "Home Network" and then "Interfaces" that appears in the menu. There should be "LocalNetwork" as a listed interface and clicking on it takes you to a page that has various headings such as "TCP/IP Configuration". In the top right click on "Configure" and you should now be able to edit various settings.

In the "IP Addresses" section add an IP address within your current network that does not conflict with your old modem - e.g. 192.168.1.254 if your modem is on 192.168.1.1. If you don't know what you're putting in here, you'll need to look at the settings on your current modem - it is likely to be in the 10.x.x.x or 192.x.x.x range. This step is necessary so you can change wireless settings later if you need to.

Untick "Use DHCP Server" and choose "Apply". This is vital as your Thomson and old modem will be running a DHCP Server and having two on the same network causes havoc.

This *should* be enough for you to restart the modem and connect it to your old modem via the LAN connections. All going well, you can connect via the wireless and get internet with no hassles.

One thing to note - once you have general internet working you should disable UPnP on the Thomson (Under "Toolbox" in the menu) as it may confuse your computers into thinking the internet gateway is the Thomson instead of the old modem and that can cause some unusual behaviour when you are relying on UPnP for automatic port forwarding.

As most SOHO modem/routers have no option to disable routing or internet per se, the functionality will still be active but as DHCP is not enabled the data shouldn't be directed through the Thomson's WAN anyway.

TLDR: The gist is to disable the DHCP on the wireless access point and configure it with an appropriate IP address within your current network. Also, in this day and age, disable UPnP on the wireless device is highly recommended.

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kyhwana2

2566 posts

Uber Geek

#425767 10-Jan-2011 14:57

Yes, you can. You just need to disable the DHCP server on the new wifi router and make sure you plug one of it's LAN ports into a LAN port on the thompson. You'll need to check the manual for how to do that.
Assign the wifi router a static IP address too, preferrably outside the range that the thomson is giving out

That way it just acts as a bridge between the wireless and the thomson modem.
Make sure you setup WPA2 too.

Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#425775 10-Jan-2011 15:18

Damo-K: The only device that will need configuring is the TG585v8 - hopefully the interface is vaguely similar to the TG789vn as I only have access to this model (and I can't find a thorough manual just at this moment). Your mileage may very quite a lot and if does differ, bear in mind this interface goes to great efforts to hide the options to re-configure stuff like the LAN settings.

Disconnect the Thomson from any network or DSL line and only connect a single computer.

Once you have access to the Thomson interface, go into the interface and choose "Home Network" and then "Interfaces" that appears in the menu. There should be "LocalNetwork" as a listed interface and clicking on it takes you to a page that has various headings such as "TCP/IP Configuration". In the top right click on "Configure" and you should now be able to edit various settings.

In the "IP Addresses" section add an IP address within your current network that does not conflict with your old modem - e.g. 192.168.1.254 if your modem is on 192.168.1.1. If you don't know what you're putting in here, you'll need to look at the settings on your current modem - it is likely to be in the 10.x.x.x or 192.x.x.x range. This step is necessary so you can change wireless settings later if you need to.

Untick "Use DHCP Server" and choose "Apply". This is vital as your Thomson and old modem will be running a DHCP Server and having two on the same network causes havoc.

This *should* be enough for you to restart the modem and connect it to your old modem via the LAN connections. All going well, you can connect via the wireless and get internet with no hassles.

One thing to note - once you have general internet working you should disable UPnP on the Thomson (Under "Toolbox" in the menu) as it may confuse your computers into thinking the internet gateway is the Thomson instead of the old modem and that can cause some unusual behaviour when you are relying on UPnP for automatic port forwarding.

As most SOHO modem/routers have no option to disable routing or internet per se, the functionality will still be active but as DHCP is not enabled the data shouldn't be directed through the Thomson's WAN anyway.

TLDR: The gist is to disable the DHCP on the wireless access point and configure it with an appropriate IP address within your current network. Also, in this day and age, disable UPnP on the wireless device is highly recommended.

Hmm im not 100% on were i go from here. If i click either it just seems to bring up options for port mapping and thats about all.

Next pages shows this

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#425791 10-Jan-2011 15:44

Aha, on the Thomson-branded interface it was just an option below where I clicked on "Home Network" in the left hand side menu but I see you don't appear to have that menu.

However, I do see "Interfaces" next to "Devices" just below the Telecom logo on those screenshots - is that clickable? That's where you want to go.

Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#425805 10-Jan-2011 16:40

Damo-K: Aha, on the Thomson-branded interface it was just an option below where I clicked on "Home Network" in the left hand side menu but I see you don't appear to have that menu.

However, I do see "Interfaces" next to "Devices" just below the Telecom logo on those screenshots - is that clickable? That's where you want to go.

Yay that was it. Didnt even notice it when i was looking.

Philica

90 posts

Master Geek

#425821 10-Jan-2011 17:21

Ok i can get internet Modem > Thomson > Wireless > PC but not Modem > Thomson > Cable > PC. Im not able to use ports on the modem as there is only one. Going > Cable > PC just shows as local and wont let me use the internet.

richms

28168 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#425841 10-Jan-2011 18:07

The thompsons seem to be a little smart for their own good with what is in each port of them, I had problems trying to use the switch in it as you are.

You probably just want to get yourself a different wifi router since they dont cost much more than the switch you would need to get to be able to have it work.

Richard rich.ms

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#425921 10-Jan-2011 21:47

richms: The thompsons seem to be a little smart for their own good with what is in each port of them, I had problems trying to use the switch in it as you are.

I suspect something too - as the Thomson can detect which port has which MAC address, it's likely to be doing some sort of port isolation or individual vlan per port. It's unusual for these sorts of features to be enabled by default but it looks the case here.

I'm optimistic to say there may be a solution to disabling the port isolation or enabling bridging - I'll have a look tomorrow if I get the chance. As the TG585v8 does 802.11n, you could consider picking up a cheap but robust $50 4x100Mbps switch from somewhere like Ascent.

Also just out of curiosity, how dramatically different were the sync rates and what are you using as a modem otherwise?

Damo-K

67 posts

Master Geek

#426037 11-Jan-2011 10:42

I just tested this on the TG789vn and I am able to use the connection from one LAN port to another. As we are talking about different models and we're now seeing different behavior I probably won't be much more use. The only other suggestion I can make is to rummage around in the toolbox and see whether the Intrusion Detection or, more likely, the firewall sections have anything about isolating the LAN ports.

Good luck and just for our curiosity please post what you end up going with :)

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