Recommend a security camera kit?

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#2200515 18-Mar-2019 07:26

I ordered a Wyze from Amazon for a play around. I have a spare iPhone charger that has the same power output so I'll run it on that. For future reference, are those cheap USB wall chargers like from Kmart (same power output) any good or would it be better to buy an adapter plug?

jonathan18

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#2200596 18-Mar-2019 09:51

JayADee: Where did you order the camera from? I'm thinking of getting one to play around with. There is a version 1 and version 2 which costs a little more. I've checked out some videos on mounting these indoors looking outdoors and this could work pretty good I think given where our windows are in regard to doors!

@JayADee: really sorry, didn't see this post until reading your newer one below. I got all my stuff from Amazon (as I see you did); got an email this morning to say it's out for delivery so I imagine it'll be there when I get home today. Should be able to report back in a few days as to how good the equipment is. (My biggest issue will be getting the cable to the outside while still allowing windows to fully close!)

I assume that you saw the need to block the IR lights to avoid reflection off the glass when using these indoors but looking outside? I decided that this (which will surely also affect the range at night) as well as the impact on the quality of image and the limited view from a window meant it would be too compromised, but if it works for you it certainly makes it damn cheap!

JayADee: I ordered a Wyze from Amazon for a play around. I have a spare iPhone charger that has the same power output so I'll run it on that. For future reference, are those cheap USB wall chargers like from Kmart (same power output) any good or would it be better to buy an adapter plug?

I bought some decent-quality adapters from Amazon when I purchased the cameras etc, but I'd be interested in the answer to this too!

JayADee

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#2200793 18-Mar-2019 14:00

jonathan18:
JayADee: Where did you order the camera from? I'm thinking of getting one to play around with. There is a version 1 and version 2 which costs a little more. I've checked out some videos on mounting these indoors looking outdoors and this could work pretty good I think given where our windows are in regard to doors!

@JayADee: really sorry, didn't see this post until reading your newer one below. I got all my stuff from Amazon (as I see you did); got an email this morning to say it's out for delivery so I imagine it'll be there when I get home today. Should be able to report back in a few days as to how good the equipment is. (My biggest issue will be getting the cable to the outside while still allowing windows to fully close!)

I assume that you saw the need to block the IR lights to avoid reflection off the glass when using these indoors but looking outside? I decided that this (which will surely also affect the range at night) as well as the impact on the quality of image and the limited view from a window meant it would be too compromised, but if it works for you it certainly makes it damn cheap!

JayADee: I ordered a Wyze from Amazon for a play around. I have a spare iPhone charger that has the same power output so I'll run it on that. For future reference, are those cheap USB wall chargers like from Kmart (same power output) any good or would it be better to buy an adapter plug?

I bought some decent-quality adapters from Amazon when I purchased the cameras etc, but I'd be interested in the answer to this too!

According to a video I watched https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UDgI3M9Vo you can shut the ir off in the app and then it records in colour as long as your lighting is ok. I have motion sensing outdoor lights hard wired around the house already but may add a cheap (about $9 from Mitre10) battery operated motion sensing light directly pointed from the front door or from the side where the camera will be to get better light if it needs it. It's going to be fun to have a play around with this. If they work well out a window this is going to be a super cheap way to go because by dumb luck there is a window and power point everywhere there needs to be.

Wyze are working on an outdoor version due sometime this year! So I might grab a couple indoor ones and hold off to see what their outdoor kit looks like. Be good to have a couple outdoors both for the ir and the speaker.

jonathan18

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#2202501 20-Mar-2019 17:06

I have my two Wyze Cam Pan cameras set up now; both are outside but well-protected under the eaves.

I'm facing two problems:

1. the image at night is essentially useless unless a security light is triggered, or a person is very close to the camera (at which the point the IR lights actually do make a difference!) - this one at least has a solution (to have security lights set to auto).

2 the motion detection and linked notification are essentially useless (given the outside setting), as there is always some movement that triggers the motion detection; unless there's no movement for a certain period (I think five mins) another notification won't be sent. This frequent triggering is shown by SD recording, which is pretty much constant - despite it being set to record only motion detection-based events! (not 24/7 recording)

I've read up a bit on this and, based on this, assume my problem is due to the cameras using pixel-based detection, so anything like light changes or leaves fluttering can set it off. I've had it set to minimum sensitivity and still face this issue. I've read suggestions to reduce the detection zone, and ideally avoid objects that will naturally move from the zone, but this isn't terribly practical when it's outside and therefore so many trees etc! If I can't do anything about this the notification alerts are essentially redundant.

Has anyone got any ideas as to how this could be managed, or is it simply what I can expect from cheap cameras using pixel-based motion detection?

Thanks for any ideas.

Jiriteach

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#2202519 20-Mar-2019 18:04

jonathan18:

I have my two Wyze Cam Pan cameras set up now; both are outside but well-protected under the eaves.

I'm facing two problems:

1. the image at night is essentially useless unless a security light is triggered, or a person is very close to the camera (at which the point the IR lights actually do make a difference!) - this one at least has a solution (to have security lights set to auto).

2 the motion detection and linked notification are essentially useless (given the outside setting), as there is always some movement that triggers the motion detection; unless there's no movement for a certain period (I think five mins) another notification won't be sent. This frequent triggering is shown by SD recording, which is pretty much constant - despite it being set to record only motion detection-based events! (not 24/7 recording)

I've read up a bit on this and, based on this, assume my problem is due to the cameras using pixel-based detection, so anything like light changes or leaves fluttering can set it off. I've had it set to minimum sensitivity and still face this issue. I've read suggestions to reduce the detection zone, and ideally avoid objects that will naturally move from the zone, but this isn't terribly practical when it's outside and therefore so many trees etc! If I can't do anything about this the notification alerts are essentially redundant.

Has anyone got any ideas as to how this could be managed, or is it simply what I can expect from cheap cameras using pixel-based motion detection?

Thanks for any ideas.

So this is the unfortunate problems one faces with these cameras. I've played with A LOT of external cameras. IR distance and pixel based detection are the two key items which is why I originally suggested the Dahua or Arlo cameras. They are pricey but do address these issues.

I had Foscam cameras and effectively were useless because while IR distance was good, pixel based detection is just useless.

Arlo cameras have a PIR in them so don't face this problem and Dahua cameras (certain models) have IVS which provides for facial and object detection as well as many other modes so both eliminate 99% of rubbish if configured properly.

You can try and run the feed through smart NVR's - Sighthound - https://www.sighthound.com/products/sighthound-video is a great product and provides for good object detection as well as an app and push notifications. I used this for my Foscam's when I had them and before I switched to my Dahua setup. Problem with Sighthound is that it hasn't been updated for ~ a year and its costly.

There are a few others like Camlytics - https://camlytics.com/ etc. but none thats simple and easy. Sighthound is simple and easy. If you're a developer then there is quite a few dev kits available - https://hackernoon.com/tensorflow-js-real-time-object-detection-in-10-lines-of-code-baf15dfb95b2.

-- opinions expressed by me are solely my own. ie - personal

JayADee

2148 posts

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#2202565 20-Mar-2019 19:48

Jiriteach:
jonathan18:

I have my two Wyze Cam Pan cameras set up now; both are outside but well-protected under the eaves.

I'm facing two problems:

1. the image at night is essentially useless unless a security light is triggered, or a person is very close to the camera (at which the point the IR lights actually do make a difference!) - this one at least has a solution (to have security lights set to auto).

2 the motion detection and linked notification are essentially useless (given the outside setting), as there is always some movement that triggers the motion detection; unless there's no movement for a certain period (I think five mins) another notification won't be sent. This frequent triggering is shown by SD recording, which is pretty much constant - despite it being set to record only motion detection-based events! (not 24/7 recording)

I've read up a bit on this and, based on this, assume my problem is due to the cameras using pixel-based detection, so anything like light changes or leaves fluttering can set it off. I've had it set to minimum sensitivity and still face this issue. I've read suggestions to reduce the detection zone, and ideally avoid objects that will naturally move from the zone, but this isn't terribly practical when it's outside and therefore so many trees etc! If I can't do anything about this the notification alerts are essentially redundant.

Has anyone got any ideas as to how this could be managed, or is it simply what I can expect from cheap cameras using pixel-based motion detection?

Thanks for any ideas.

So this is the unfortunate problems one faces with these cameras. I've played with A LOT of external cameras. IR distance and pixel based detection are the two key items which is why I originally suggested the Dahua or Arlo cameras. They are pricey but do address these issues.

I had Foscam cameras and effectively were useless because while IR distance was good, pixel based detection is just useless.

Arlo cameras have a PIR in them so don't face this problem and Dahua cameras (certain models) have IVS which provides for facial and object detection as well as many other modes so both eliminate 99% of rubbish if configured properly.

You can try and run the feed through smart NVR's - Sighthound - https://www.sighthound.com/products/sighthound-video is a great product and provides for good object detection as well as an app and push notifications. I used this for my Foscam's when I had them and before I switched to my Dahua setup. Problem with Sighthound is that it hasn't been updated for ~ a year and its costly.

There are a few others like Camlytics - https://camlytics.com/ etc. but none thats simple and easy. Sighthound is simple and easy. If you're a developer then there is quite a few dev kits available - https://hackernoon.com/tensorflow-js-real-time-object-detection-in-10-lines-of-code-baf15dfb95b2.

I'm glad you said that because just before I read your post I was googling Foscam.

Thanks to my Alfred trial I have discovered my window sills get very hot. (No way to avoid direct sun). This was with the phone in a cardboard 'case' with the white side out to shield it from the heat. So there is something to keep in mind as even under the eves there's a chance of direct sunlight at my place and placed on window sills indoors I might cook the cams. The wyze is rated 32-104F or 0 to 40C.

The motion detection using Alfred wasn't too bad. I had it on medium for the driveway and low for the door and despite tree shadows waving pretty hard I wasn't getting false positives but it did capture the car well in the drive and people at the door- I am guessing because relative to viewing area the pixels affected took up a lot of screen.

I am taking a harder look at Dahua and Arlo.

You can put custom firmware on the Wyze there is a video on YouTube

Yoban

447 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2202573 20-Mar-2019 20:07

sparkz25:

pknz: Is anyone running Unifi cameras?

I have been running the unifi cameras for a few years now on multiple sites, I have found them to work really well and pretty bullet proof as well, i have never tried the Standalone Nvr that they sel i have always used a VM, either ubuntu or windows.

the most recent addition to my setup was the IR extender for my driveway cam, that thing lights up the entire drive and more at night and helps the other 2 cameras in that area, ill post some pics later with the IR extender and with out the IR Extender

That is good to know as I am looking to head down this path from a Dahua set up.

The IR extender - is that the one that sits on the front of the camera or a third party IR flood light?

I have to say the dahua's have been very stable and reliable and I run my NVR software in a container on my NAS. It is the whole firmware availability and lack of easy remote viewing that has me investigating.

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nzlogan

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#2202627 20-Mar-2019 21:31

Re: Motion detection

Quite a few cameras and most NVRs have the digital input/output feature on them. I've got PIRs and beam sensors running at a couple sites connected to either the cameras or the NVR. It's solved pretty much all the issues we had with using motion detection - it's very rare there's a false alarm, and makes looking through footage a heap easier. It's also cheap and is easy to do.

sbiddle

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#2202642 20-Mar-2019 21:58

Yoban:

It is the whole firmware availability and lack of easy remote viewing that has me investigating.

What's the issue with either?

If you have genuine Dahua cameras firmware is on the Dahua website.

Their P2P solution is also a (relatively) secure solution for remote access that avoids having to open any ports and expose your network.

Jiriteach

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#2202646 20-Mar-2019 22:10

Yoban:
sparkz25:

It is the whole firmware availability and lack of easy remote viewing that has me investigating.

Regular firmware updates on the official Dahua website? Mainly to address security issues and bugs but there’s the admin interface is functional and once setup, I never have to access it. I rarely access them.

What are you using for remote viewing?

I use iDMSS Plus on iOS and have no problems with this. I can access all my cams and have push notifications as well and see video playback etc. All from my phone and tablet.

On Mac I use SmartPSS and again no problems with that.

-- opinions expressed by me are solely my own. ie - personal

JayADee

2148 posts

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#2202703 21-Mar-2019 08:15

Jiriteach:
Yoban:
sparkz25:

It is the whole firmware availability and lack of easy remote viewing that has me investigating.

Regular firmware updates on the official Dahua website? Mainly to address security issues and bugs but there’s the admin interface is functional and once setup, I never have to access it. I rarely access them.

What are you using for remote viewing?

I use iDMSS Plus on iOS and have no problems with this. I can access all my cams and have push notifications as well and see video playback etc. All from my phone and tablet.

On Mac I use SmartPSS and again no problems with that.

Good to know. Just last night I was wondering what viewer is used with that make. We're using iPhones and I have a Windows PC for setup.

I am thinking turret cams because of bugs, reflection etc. but can be flexible.
I'm thinking PoE,
SD card for continuous recording and
PoE switch (no NVR or DVR) and running the cat cable through my roof space and out the soffit.
I definitely won't be buying a subscription.
I want to view footage and get notifications from an app.
I want to be able to switch to live view as well as see motion clips.
The camera is going to have to have half decent movement detection (swaying trees and shadows from same), so probably not strictly pixel based.
I'd like a company that's been around a while.
I would prefer not to need a base station.

Anyone got some more specific recommendations for outdoor camera models from Dahua, Hikvision or their off brands Amcrest and Hilook that would suit? To save money the cameras don't have to move ie pan. I prefer not to spend a fortune on each camera. Maybe $200 NZD or less. There are a lot of cameras for sale it's a bit confusing.

Hope I'm not being a pain.
This has been a real education, thanks a lot.

rp1790

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#2202708 21-Mar-2019 08:27

If you can I'd strongly recommend the Dahua Starlight cameras. They would seem like lower resolution at 2MP but it's all about the optics. And Andy at Empire Tech, ships really really fast and very responsive.

Starlight camera: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IPC-HDW2231R-ZS-2MP-Starlight-IR-Eyeball-Network-Camera-2-7-13-5mm-varifocal-lens-IPC/1200032_32884384754.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.21ee1f6bAXPa5g

Empiretech: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI

Generally you get the cameras in days from Andy!

Jiriteach

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#2202709 21-Mar-2019 08:30

rp1790:
If you can I'd strongly recommend the Dahua Starlight cameras. They would seem like lower resolution at 2MP but it's all about the optics. And Andy at Empire Tech, ships really really fast and very responsive.

Starlight camera: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IPC-HDW2231R-ZS-2MP-Starlight-IR-Eyeball-Network-Camera-2-7-13-5mm-varifocal-lens-IPC/1200032_32884384754.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.21ee1f6bAXPa5g

Empiretech: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI

Generally you get the cameras in days from Andy!

Totally agree with this. I purchase of Andy regularly. His cameras are Dahua OEM
and ship with English firmware allowing for official updates Fromm Dahua. His prices might look expensive compared with others in AliExpress but it’s this plus that his prices include DHL Express shipping which is ~ 2 days to NZ.

-- opinions expressed by me are solely my own. ie - personal

JayADee

2148 posts

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#2202997 21-Mar-2019 19:16

Thanks you guys, I'll check those out.

JayADee

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#2203088 21-Mar-2019 21:37

Jiriteach:
rp1790:
If you can I'd strongly recommend the Dahua Starlight cameras. They would seem like lower resolution at 2MP but it's all about the optics. And Andy at Empire Tech, ships really really fast and very responsive.

Starlight camera: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IPC-HDW2231R-ZS-2MP-Starlight-IR-Eyeball-Network-Camera-2-7-13-5mm-varifocal-lens-IPC/1200032_32884384754.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.21ee1f6bAXPa5g

Empiretech: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032?spm=0.8937474.0.0.1cc52e0eMBqHmI

Generally you get the cameras in days from Andy!

Totally agree with this. I purchase of Andy regularly. His cameras are Dahua OEM
and ship with English firmware allowing for official updates Fromm Dahua. His prices might look expensive compared with others in AliExpress but it’s this plus that his prices include DHL Express shipping which is ~ 2 days to NZ.

Yeah that 2MP from Andy looks like it will do the job.

Is it a good idea to get one camera with mic in and audio out or an alarm in case somebody is up to something? I'd rather deter than catch later. As the door cam maybe? Any thoughts on which one would be good for that? :)

Also when ordering from Andy what's the answer to his 'Please leave message to let us know the format (PAL/NTSC) and the power standard of the DVRs or NVRs you buy in case any mistake' question? Just in case someday I decide to get one.

Aaaand, on one of the posts on I think Amazon a guy said don't put the pigtail (I am guessing that is the other lead which does I am not sure what) in the casing or junction box because the cable is not shielded and it will interfere with the signal. Well that's exactly why I would want a junction box. To put the cables in to Minimise the hole size I have to drill for the cable so I don't have to stick them up into the hole. Is he right about that? And what is that other cable for?

Are you guys using junction boxes or wall mounts with your cameras to put the wire in?

Thanks for your patience.

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