Tiny rant over IP Cameras

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Talkiet

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Topic # 198434 8-Jul-2016 22:28

Or more correctly, probably, my insistence on trying the cheapest options...

I just bought a couple of 1080P POE IP cameras from Aliexpress - they weren't expensive but they had a bunch of good reviews and the vendor was responsive to pre-sales questions but...

SHEESH! These things barely work, and even then, only if you use the right version of IE (forget Firefox or Chrome!)... They won't connect to an NVR that I bought recently and they are generally crap. I wouldn't mind this so much if the specs and description didn't say they support all browsers and work with NVRs. I can't tell the ONVIF version etc etc etc. Oh and it REQUIRES Quicktime (Which is now unsupported and specifically blocked in Chrome!)

I buy a bunch of stuff off Aliexpress and this is always a risk but IP cameras in particular frustrate me... All I want is a decent 720 or 1080P POE Dome IP camera with good IR vision and nice sharp daytime vision that works in a modern browser (ie not requiring IE) for $50-$70 USD... Seems most of the vendors on Aliexpress basically make everything up.

Rant over.

Cheers - N

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Reply # 1588549 8-Jul-2016 22:50

I got some cameras, put a password on the admin account as you do, and then powered on the NVR from the seller. It found and displayed all the cameras without me doing anything other than pressing "scan" or something and it finding them.

I did not have to give it the password for the admin account of the cameras. W T F.

If I cared, I would traffic dump them to see what the hell they were doing, as I dont think anything they do is encrypted.

In anycase, they live on their own vlan, so nothing else can see them except my PC.

Oh, and the web UI for one of the cameras has a hidden iframe linking to a malware site too. Wonderful.

Richard rich.ms

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Reply # 1588551 8-Jul-2016 22:53

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richms:

Oh, and the web UI for one of the cameras has a hidden iframe linking to a malware site too. Wonderful.

creative use of generating some extra profit.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Oblivian

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Reply # 1588563 8-Jul-2016 23:36

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I recently installed one for a mate with an existing NVR that used that format. Took me a good couple of hours.

The camera has a FIXED ip, outside the local network range. (and was requiring PoE..)

So, found x brand 12v input and fired it up. Finally managed to web admin it (after changing his router and DHCP range to suit) and configured it for DHCP itself. (More on issues with this and an NVR later..)

The trick for the browser config issues like you seem to have were striking me too. The fix? Read the overseas manuals for other models. learn you need to add the page to not only Compatibility mode (to allow the language selection to english button rather than use google translate like I was!) But add it to trusted security zone too.

Once web admin was working (needed trusted to allow the script to run a local browser addon) changed to DHCP. Of course this doesn't bode well with NVRs as his was uPnP on the native cameras, assigning MAC to a local preset IP assigned to the port within its own VLAN. So when this was in, the NVR couldn't see it. And wouldn't dish out an IP. Clearly the ports need to be configured afterall

Lead to control fix.. I had pre-set the IP in the NVR to a local lan address DHCP had applied to the camera. All of a sudden the NVR could see the camera through the normal switch on the lan (after it was rebooted to apply changes from GUI) without even being in the NVR port directly. That wasn't really Ideal. So I re configured the camera IP to one within the NVRs vlan far enough away and configured the free port the same.

Of course this then dropped the camera LAN side, but picked it up soon as it was into the NVR directly. NVR wasn't doing internal routing for it to continue with cameras on different ranges this way it seems

Still had issues with the NVR not being able to connnect, but it could see something attached and was smart and knew when you used both an insecure PW, or complex PW. But it didn't seem to give a damn really.

It was at this point, I was still googling and found a few tools to help further and possibly help from the getgo. A ONVIF discovery, and config tool :) made it a bit easier to manage than the icky GUI.

As pointed out, as long as the NVR can hit the control interface, the protocol they use to the rest for management without any admin credentials etc. This also needed to be tweaked in the NVR port config by matching the results found by the discovery tool with the CORRECT management port - 8899, NOT the 80/8080 the NVR or you may think it claims to be.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/onvifdm/

It also gives you stream direct links etc which can be handy.

richms

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Reply # 1588567 8-Jul-2016 23:48

Oh, and one of the NVR's I got to just use to watch the cameras on, will keep setting the cameras timezone to china, despite itself being set to UTC+12, so the clock embedded in the image will flick between NZ time and china time occasionally.

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Reply # 1588583 9-Jul-2016 00:56

richms:

Oh, and one of the NVR's I got to just use to watch the cameras on, will keep setting the cameras timezone to china, despite itself being set to UTC+12, so the clock embedded in the image will flick between NZ time and china time occasionally.

One I battled with had its own onboard TZ offset etc too that could conflict. It displayed in 1 format in preview, but if you adjusted location/display/time within the NVR settings it would move, change font and adjust. Sounds similar.

Seems these things are made to run fully standalone or be controlled via interface (with conflicts)

michaelmurfy

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Reply # 1588608 9-Jul-2016 01:15

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If I am ever to buy something off Aliexpress to connect to my network it'll never get internet access and stays on the "Untrusted Device" VLAN or never actually gets connected to my network or bought.

Devices, especially cameras should be always airgapped from your own internet and not allowed internet access and to be honest I'd never buy a "random name brand" camera to connect to my network.

Even things that most would consider "safe" are blocked from internet access - if it has an IP and is an embedded device with no reason for internet access it is on another VLAN. This includes my printer, wireless AP etc.

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sbiddle

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Reply # 1588632 9-Jul-2016 08:56

Talkiet:

Or more correctly, probably, my insistence on trying the cheapest options...

I just bought a couple of 1080P POE IP cameras from Aliexpress - they weren't expensive but they had a bunch of good reviews and the vendor was responsive to pre-sales questions but...

SHEESH! These things barely work, and even then, only if you use the right version of IE (forget Firefox or Chrome!)... They won't connect to an NVR that I bought recently and they are generally crap. I wouldn't mind this so much if the specs and description didn't say they support all browsers and work with NVRs. I can't tell the ONVIF version etc etc etc. Oh and it REQUIRES Quicktime (Which is now unsupported and specifically blocked in Chrome!)

I buy a bunch of stuff off Aliexpress and this is always a risk but IP cameras in particular frustrate me... All I want is a decent 720 or 1080P POE Dome IP camera with good IR vision and nice sharp daytime vision that works in a modern browser (ie not requiring IE) for $50-$70 USD... Seems most of the vendors on Aliexpress basically make everything up.

Rant over.

Cheers - N

Stick with a brand name. IMHO $50 - $70 is far too cheap for a quality product. US$80 is about the minimum for quality.

freitasm

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Reply # 1588634 9-Jul-2016 09:00

richms:I did not have to give it the password for the admin account of the cameras. W T F.

Oh, and the web UI for one of the cameras has a hidden iframe linking to a malware site too. Wonderful.

Right there why people should not but these things and should tell other not to ever to do it.

CleverLoop if you ever want something better than this crap.

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Talkiet

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Reply # 1588639 9-Jul-2016 09:27

Thanks for the commiserations and suggestions... Craig, all of your suggestions make sense and the ONVIF discovery tool is great. I added it to the trusted sites and compatibility view and while that suppressed the popups and let the page render, it still wouldn't actually allow config... I did install their own CMS system (ick) and I can see a picture through that...

But that is the only software that shows a picture from the device... ONVIF view, the NVR, 3 different browsers all fail to get a stream up. Very frustrating for something that purports to be ONVIF standard. (The ONVIF discovery/config tool can see it, and can make changes, but can't get the stream working)... I found a number of ports that might have been it (9101 and triedc some others but no go)

I bought 2 of these damn things... Want one? If you make it work you can keep it (if you make the other one work as well with an NVR or standard ONVIF viewer :-)

Cheers - N

Talkiet

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Reply # 1588640 9-Jul-2016 09:28

sbiddle:

Talkiet:

Or more correctly, probably, my insistence on trying the cheapest options...

I just bought a couple of 1080P POE IP cameras from Aliexpress - they weren't expensive but they had a bunch of good reviews and the vendor was responsive to pre-sales questions but...

SHEESH! These things barely work, and even then, only if you use the right version of IE (forget Firefox or Chrome!)... They won't connect to an NVR that I bought recently and they are generally crap. I wouldn't mind this so much if the specs and description didn't say they support all browsers and work with NVRs. I can't tell the ONVIF version etc etc etc. Oh and it REQUIRES Quicktime (Which is now unsupported and specifically blocked in Chrome!)

I buy a bunch of stuff off Aliexpress and this is always a risk but IP cameras in particular frustrate me... All I want is a decent 720 or 1080P POE Dome IP camera with good IR vision and nice sharp daytime vision that works in a modern browser (ie not requiring IE) for $50-$70 USD... Seems most of the vendors on Aliexpress basically make everything up.

Rant over.

Cheers - N

Stick with a brand name. IMHO $50 - $70 is far too cheap for a quality product. US$80 is about the minimum for quality.

Sounds like a reasonable comment and suggestion but I'm not going to trust my intuition on these damn things anymore - got any specific suggestions?

Cheers - N

sbiddle

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Reply # 1588694 9-Jul-2016 11:09

Talkiet:

sbiddle:

Talkiet:

Or more correctly, probably, my insistence on trying the cheapest options...

I just bought a couple of 1080P POE IP cameras from Aliexpress - they weren't expensive but they had a bunch of good reviews and the vendor was responsive to pre-sales questions but...

SHEESH! These things barely work, and even then, only if you use the right version of IE (forget Firefox or Chrome!)... They won't connect to an NVR that I bought recently and they are generally crap. I wouldn't mind this so much if the specs and description didn't say they support all browsers and work with NVRs. I can't tell the ONVIF version etc etc etc. Oh and it REQUIRES Quicktime (Which is now unsupported and specifically blocked in Chrome!)

I buy a bunch of stuff off Aliexpress and this is always a risk but IP cameras in particular frustrate me... All I want is a decent 720 or 1080P POE Dome IP camera with good IR vision and nice sharp daytime vision that works in a modern browser (ie not requiring IE) for $50-$70 USD... Seems most of the vendors on Aliexpress basically make everything up.

Rant over.

Cheers - N

Stick with a brand name. IMHO $50 - $70 is far too cheap for a quality product. US$80 is about the minimum for quality.

Sounds like a reasonable comment and suggestion but I'm not going to trust my intuition on these damn things anymore - got any specific suggestions?

Cheers - N

Dahia or Hikvision from reputable sellers.

Just be aware most low cost Dahua gear on Aliexpress is actually Chinese product that's been reflashed with hacked English firmware. Genuine English product will cost more.

Dahua make two different models for the Chinese and export markets but sell the genuine export stuff at a higher price. You used to be able to simply load the English firmware onto Chinese cameras but this no longer works. They've all worked out how to bypass this with hacks so load custom firmware on, but you will lose the ability to ever upgrade the firmware if it's not a genuine English firmware product. That's not an issue for most people.

Talkiet

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Reply # 1588928 9-Jul-2016 17:53

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I must give credit where credit's due and the tech support from China WAY exceeded my expectations. Very quick and accurate replies from someone that understood clearly my questions. Unfortunately they do admit that basically there's no way to use the camera GUI anymore with the plugin issues (Unless you use a WinXP machine and ancient browser and plugins).

Although the ONVIF camera was detected and config changes were possible without ANY form of authentication (including flashing a new firmware, changing bitrates, rebooting, resetting to defaults etc), viewing the stream required a password which was '123456' (not documented anywhere) but now it works with my NVR just fine. I'll have to go through and try and disable the P2P or set them up with a non-existent gateway address to keep them individually off the Internet, but for the moment things appear to work.

Cheers - N

richms

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Reply # 1588941 9-Jul-2016 18:45

One of mine was giving out a really old broken active-x control that was not signed by "microsoft windows" or something, but once I used the NVR with the same interface on it, its active-x installed and the camera was fine with that version of it.

The best had to be the giant ugly camera I bought, it had hidden in the UI a "cloud" URL, which I loaded and the camera appeared. Seems it didnt ask me to auth as I had already logged into the camera. As I had not changed the default password changing the numbers on the end of the cloud URL got me many pictures from other cameras, with things like carparks, factorys, schools, and other places people would put an IP camera - all in china from what I could see.

Well done cloud camera company for not at least defaulting to off, or refusing to cloud when the password was the default. Made the horrid xmeyes one look like fort knox in comparison.

Richard rich.ms

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Reply # 1589141 10-Jul-2016 14:31

If choosing an IP camera, I reckon it really needs to support MJPG or similar directly via a URL without the need for plugin's (especially if you want it to be compatible or integrate with other products) As soon as its proprietary connectivity (you gotta use their apps or 3rd party plugins to view live streaming or record etc) then it limits you greatly. I have this issue with a couple outdoor QSee cameras at the moment, I just can't get to integrate into OpenHAB for example. They are actually not bad quality cameras when they work - they're just an aweful interface and limited on access (although they do support ONVIF via TCP9988 and using admin/admin, which appears officially undocumented) but only via rtsp://... And while QSee cameras do support HTTP access via TCP85, I can't pass credentials too it via URL, eg: like doing http://user@password:IPADDRESS/... The Axis camera I have however was easy as, supports a lot of options by passing parameters via the URL. I guess that's what you get when you skimp on price and don't do your homework before purchasing.

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Reply # 1589390 11-Jul-2016 08:20

Talkiet:

Seems most of the vendors on Aliexpress basically make everything up.

Yeah, that's AliExpress all right. Very Wild West.

I have a Miracast that I bought, advertised as 2.4/5GHz. Turns out to be only 2.4GHz, documented in their own user manual :(

Also watch out for the "free shipping" scam, where stuff appears in the "Free shipping" search, but turns out to add on shipping. Or if you buy more than one item, suddenly you're charged for shipping.

And never buy a USB stick or SD card... I've learnt the hard way that most of them are faulty.

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