18650 Batteries

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sudo

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Topic # 199197 8-Aug-2016 15:58

Been looking around for some 18650 batteries and found many different types and prices. Some look dodgy and others excessively priced.

I'm needing a middle of road ~2500mAH battery (or slightly better) with short-circuit/overcharge protection at a reasonable price.

Anyone recommend a model/vendor (standalone or on TM) ?

kiwi_64

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Reply # 1606404 8-Aug-2016 16:01

https://www.torchmonster.co.nz/accessories/batteries.html

trig42

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Reply # 1606407 8-Aug-2016 16:07

I got some sent from DealExtreme. They work fine as far as I can tell. Got a charger from them too.

IIRC the package came here via Holland (because of the batteries) and took quite a while, but it did get to me.

sudo

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Reply # 1606411 8-Aug-2016 16:13

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I've had issues getting batteries from the Chinese sites before. But this was before they started bouncing via Holland/Sweden with items containing batteries.

sudo

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Reply # 1606416 8-Aug-2016 16:16

OK haven't seen torchmonster before ... and they got Nitecore, which I like their torches.

muppet

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Reply # 1606417 8-Aug-2016 16:17

I bought 2 batteries from this guy and they checked out legit on my MC3000.

That is, their capacity was close to 3400. They've been reliable since I bought them ~3-4 months ago.

I haven't tested the protection and I hope I never find that I need to!

richms

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Reply # 1606424 8-Aug-2016 16:27

I ordered 2 lots of these after over-discharging an ex laptop 18650 in my crappy little flashlight again.

http://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_192848.html

Tested at 2500ish from flat in the cheapie liitokala charger which doesnt mean much since it was metering the charge part of the cycle, and it wasnt flat enough to cut out, just flat enough that the powerbank I was running it flat in shut down.

Richard rich.ms

neb

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Reply # 1606442 8-Aug-2016 16:54

18650s are a real pain to deal with, if you want the best (or close to it) get AW's ones (look for AW in vaper forums, they're expensive but high-quality, he tests the cells he sources before re-selling them). Other than that you've got decent cells that work, dodgy cells that happen to work, and dodgy cells that are dodgy, and there's no easy way to tell what's what in advance. What's worse, everyone clones all the better-known ones, so if you get Ultrafire's (who themselves started out as cloners) you're probably getting a clone unless you go to the genuine Ultrafire store. When you find an online store that looks like it's run from some guy's bedroom in Hong Kong, a cheap phishing attempt, you'll know it's the genuine Ultrafire online store.

So I'd say, first, try AW, if you want to pay his prices. Then try direct from a vendor like Ultrafire. Then try anything else. Note that just because it says Panasonic or Sanyo on it doesn't mean Panasonic or Sanyo had anything to do with them. Probably you'll be OK, you may get lower-than-advertised capacity (check what Panasonic and the like are currently offering direct, anything listed as higher than that by some vendor is fake, e.g. if Panasonic's top of the line is 2800mAh then someone selling a 3400mAh cell is faking it), or no protection circuitry, or, worst-case, the dreaded "vent with flame". If that happens, remove yourself and anyone else at maximum speed, and don't breathe or touch anything that's produced.

I've been using Ultrafire's direct from their store, the AWs are nice but I don't want to pay the premium.

Athlonite

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Reply # 1606456 8-Aug-2016 17:03

these are good and decent price to boot

http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/batteries/rechargeable/other/auction-1138174594.htm

neb

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Reply # 1606461 8-Aug-2016 17:08

muppet:
I bought 2 batteries from this guy and they checked out legit on my MC3000.

That is, their capacity was close to 3400. They've been reliable since I bought them ~3-4 months ago.

I haven't tested the protection and I hope I never find that I need to!

That's actually a good example of what a wild west the 18650 situation is. Those are Gold Runhui (specifically Shenzhen Gold Runhui Technology Co) cells:

http://www.goldrunhui.com/panasonic-original-18650-ncr18650b-3400mah-37v-rechargeable-liion-double-protected-battery-p-1041.html

However, those don't look like the real Panasonic 18650B, which is this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C26OWGS

(it's also what's used in the Tesla, incidentally).

Gold Runhui also sell fake Ultrafires:

http://www.goldrunhui.com/ultrafire-18650-4250mah-rechargeable-battery-p-1075.html

so I'd say you're probably getting an, uh, approximation to a genuine Panasonic 18650.

muppet

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Reply # 1606629 8-Aug-2016 21:58

neb: so I'd say you're probably getting an, uh, approximation to a genuine Panasonic 18650.

Well I'd, ugh, say that having tested them multiple times, their charging curve is excellent. They've a very slow ramp up under the CC phase to 4.2v and don't spend very long in the CV phase. If they were dodgy I'd expect them to hit CV much sooner. They also perform very well under high current load. They keep a pretty good v4.18-v4.16v reading after a day or so off the charger.

They discharge from full down to 2.7v and read ~3350 mah or so. That's having been charged to v4.20 with a CV cutoff of ~50ma.

So if they're dodgy cells as you claim (based on what, exactly? The picture? You licked your finger and put it in the air?) then they've very very good dodgy cells.

I was very surprised too, I expected them to be re-wrapped, recycled or something else equally *fire rated. But they're actually very good cells, I have no reason to believe they're not Panasonic's based on their performance.

Edit: I think I see the mistake you're making. Someone has just re-wrapped the battery and added the positive nipple and protection cell. I'm, ugh, 100% sure you're aware a genuine panasonic cell isn't protected, and a cell sold as protected has had that protection added by someone else.

neb

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Reply # 1606632 8-Aug-2016 22:09

Oh, you can get perfectly well-performing cells from all sorts of sources (thus my earlier classification that included "dodgy cells that work well", where "dodgy" meant who-knows-what brand that performs quite well). I was just pointing out that these don't look like genuine Panasonics, and that that vendor sells other fake cells, so the fact that you got a good one this week doesn't mean you'll get the same next week.

In your case you're essentially doing what AW does, buying cells and then characterising them to see whether they're well-performing or not. If you don't have the equipment (or time) to do that, your best bet is to buy from reputable suppliers.

neb

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Reply # 1606635 8-Aug-2016 22:21

Ah, sure, if they've added the protection circuit then that would change the appearance, and since Panasonic don't do that you'd get an OEM-packaged one that quacks like a clone even if it's a genuine Panasonic cell. I thought the Amazon ones were protected (based on the indentation around the top, where you'd see the protection circuitry added), but they're unprotected, which is what the vapers are looking for.

Still, as a matter of principle I'm pretty dubious about some of these cells. You're carrying around, or storing, what's in effect an incendiary/smoke grenade (which is why many carriers have banned them), so I'd rather pay a bit extra and not take the risk.

timmmay

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Reply # 1606684 9-Aug-2016 07:22

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I tend to buy batteries (other than bulk AA) from ebay, they're often 80% cheaper than NZ and have always worked fine. Some of my photography gear needs weird sizes or button cells, batteries that cost $10 each in NZ can be $5 for 10 on ebay, and they work just fine if you buy from a reputable seller.

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