The use of IMSI catchers in New Zealand

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › The use of IMSI catchers in New Zealand

InfiniteLoop

19 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Topic # 231871 17-Mar-2018 18:18

Does anyone know of any legislation prohibiting the use of IMSI catchers in New Zealand? Considering building one for a specific (legitimate) purpose. The use of the data would be legal provided the actual use of the device is legal.

1 | 2

475 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 107

Subscriber

Reply # 1979183 17-Mar-2018 20:31

IMSI catchers would be prohibited by a raft of legislation, regulations and licensing requirements to non-govt agencies.

There may however be other options to achieve a similar result (without MITM / boardcasting on licensed frequencies etc).

InfiniteLoop

19 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Reply # 1979252 18-Mar-2018 09:12

One person supports this post

How about if it operates in a passive mode. Listening only and not performing a MITM role.

solutionz

475 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 107

Subscriber

Reply # 1979253 18-Mar-2018 09:36

If you're simply logging broadcast data (wifi / bluetooth station IDs etc) there are some grey areas and would depend on the extent of meta-data vs private payload data.

See https://www.privacy.org.nz/news-and-publications/commissioner-inquiries/google-s-collection-of-wifi-information-during-street-view-filming/

I believe an IMSI-catchers by definition require a MITM attack so even in a "passive" / pass-through mode you're going to be in breach of spectrum licencing & interference of private networks.

sbiddle

26635 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6141

Moderator

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1979254 18-Mar-2018 09:54

5 people support this post

I'm curious what legitimate use you believe there is for one outside a law enforcement role.

kyhwana2

2435 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 144

Reply # 1979258 18-Mar-2018 10:10

One person supports this post

InfiniteLoop:
How about if it operates in a passive mode. Listening only and not performing a MITM role.

If you're not transmitting at all then it's probably legal as long as you aren't retransmitting or publishing anything you capture. Transmitting on cell phone bands is a massive no no without a license and the RSM will be all over you once they catch you.

If all you're doing is listening then https://github.com/Oros42/IMSI-catcher/blob/master/README.md with an SDR will work fine and is legal.

solutionz

475 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 107

Subscriber

Reply # 1979262 18-Mar-2018 10:42

One person supports this post

kyhwana2:

If you're not transmitting at all then it's probably legal as long as you aren't retransmitting or publishing anything you capture. Transmitting on cell phone bands is a massive no no without a license and the RSM will be all over you once they catch you.

If all you're doing is listening then https://github.com/Oros42/IMSI-catcher/blob/master/README.md with an SDR will work fine and is legal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the premise behind IMSI-catching is that you are masquerading as a cell tower on the network (requiring active broadcasting as opposed to passive logging)? - this certainly is not lawful for non-govt parties.

kyhwana2

2435 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 144

Reply # 1979263 18-Mar-2018 10:47

solutionz:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the premise behind IMSI-catching is that you are masquerading as a cell tower on the network (requiring active broadcasting as apposed to passive logging)? - this certainly is not lawful for non-govt parties.

The name of the tool may be misleading, I guess. It's more of an IMSI sniffer.

Again, it is definitely not legal to transmit on cellphone frequencies at all unless you're licensed to do so.

kyhwana2

2435 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 144

Reply # 1979264 18-Mar-2018 10:49

InfiniteLoop:
Does anyone know of any legislation prohibiting the use of IMSI catchers in New Zealand? Considering building one for a specific (legitimate) purpose. The use of the data would be legal provided the actual use of the device is legal.

What exactly is the use case? There may be easier/more legal ways of doing what you want.

(You could always take a trip out to international waters and setup your own cell tower..)

Linux

3217 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1802

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1979275 18-Mar-2018 12:15

What can you do with an IMSI? I use to manage the IMSI / SIM cards and it's not very exciting at all

Linux

Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

cruxis

179 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 96

Reply # 1979289 18-Mar-2018 13:12

What are the chances of getting caught anyways for limited use of one? Go for it.

Linux

3217 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1802

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1979290 18-Mar-2018 13:13

cruxis:

What are the chances of getting caught anyways for limited use of one? Go for it.

What about the Ki string to use that IMSI?

Linux

Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

InfiniteLoop

19 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Reply # 1979491 18-Mar-2018 23:24

Linux:

What can you do with an IMSI? I use to manage the IMSI / SIM cards and it's not very exciting at all

Linux

The sole purpose would be to detect presence of the phones and log the IMSI and if possible IMEI numbers

Linux

3217 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1802

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1979492 18-Mar-2018 23:45

InfiniteLoop:

Linux:

What can you do with an IMSI? I use to manage the IMSI / SIM cards and it's not very exciting at all

Linux

The sole purpose would be to detect presence of the phones and log the IMSI and if possible IMEI numbers

Then what?

Linux

Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

InfiniteLoop

19 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Reply # 1979495 19-Mar-2018 00:15

Linux:

InfiniteLoop:

Linux:

What can you do with an IMSI? I use to manage the IMSI / SIM cards and it's not very exciting at all

Linux

The sole purpose would be to detect presence of the phones and log the IMSI and if possible IMEI numbers

Then what?

Linux

That's about as much as I'd be willing to say other than that information wouldn't be used for anything nefarious or illegal.

Andib

885 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 575

Trusted

Reply # 1979510 19-Mar-2018 08:08

2 people support this post

Linux:

InfiniteLoop:

The sole purpose would be to detect presence of the phones and log the IMSI and if possible IMEI numbers

Then what?

Linux

1 | 2