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Topic # 240481 10-Sep-2018 11:47
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Hiya,

 

 

 

So we have smart meters for power, but does anyone know when the industry will start to roll out smart meters for Gas?


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  Reply # 2086890 10-Sep-2018 13:48
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The problem I think is that they need to be battery powered as they are outside, next to a meter of explosive gas.

 

They are probably required to be intrinsically safe.




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  Reply # 2086893 10-Sep-2018 13:51
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Good point.

 

 

 

I was going to say "how are the electric ones powered then" but yea.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2086996 10-Sep-2018 15:26
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Add to that smart water meters....

 

I know Metrix that provide a large number of smart electricity meters have been looking at gas. As scary as it sounds they do exist in the UK (https://www.flonidan.com/products-and-solutions/smart-gas-meters/uniflo-smart-gas-meter)


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  Reply # 2087004 10-Sep-2018 15:37
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Can they be solar powered?


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  Reply # 2087067 10-Sep-2018 17:42
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This is something that is being watched closely by the gas industry, unfortunately there aren't any products available yet that do smart gas metering for the home.





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  Reply # 2087164 10-Sep-2018 21:07
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Electricity meters have the definite advantage of having electricity readily available.

Electricity smart meters are expected to provide useage over time data, and have the ability to communicate with devices to optimise their power use. (i.e. stop the freezer from running it's defrost cycle if the grid is stressed.) This is the "smart" bit. Shaving the peaks of demand means less cost to make and distribute power (electricity is very hard to store).

Todays power meters are actually pritty dumb. Their big advantage is being able to be remotely read, hence saving the cost of meter readers. Also 1/2 hour data means companies, and more frequent reporting makes companies like flick feasible, and makes power tracking websites easy for utility companies to set up.

 

 

 

Water, and gas a relatively easy to store, so there isn't much point bothering with peak shaving. (gas especially as its springiness means that a substantial portion is stored in the pipes as line pack.

 

That said, if we want to become richer as a country, we need to become more productive, and replacing 100 meter readers with one guy behind a desk is a way to do it.

 

As Yoban has pointed out, remotely read gas meters exit. (they are ATEX rated to deal with potentially flammable atmosphere).

I would imagine in another decade or two, all water and gas meters will be remotely read.


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  Reply # 2087165 10-Sep-2018 21:11
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Genesis Energy has (finally) started reporting usage stats via their portal, but it's pretty inaccurate for predicting usage etc, because of the difference between estimates and actual reads. It does improve with about 3 years of data though. They are also developing an estimator based on bottle weight.

 

I have also seen products that approximate the level of gas in a tank, but volume is affected by air temp, so getting a solid lead on how much you have left is a little tricky. 

 

If its more to gauge usage and see how much you are using though, their estimator is ok. We are $4.50/day apparently.





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  Reply # 2087201 11-Sep-2018 01:03
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They could incentivise manual readings weekly (minus a $, would be cheaper than a meter reader and vehicle. Or if the meter is within some distance of an electrical meter (and on the same provider) that has phone home capability, use a different signaling technique to repeat the reading via a very low power solar powered gas meter. 


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  Reply # 2087237 11-Sep-2018 06:12
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Yoban:

 

Add to that smart water meters....

 

I know Metrix that provide a large number of smart electricity meters have been looking at gas. As scary as it sounds they do exist in the UK (https://www.flonidan.com/products-and-solutions/smart-gas-meters/uniflo-smart-gas-meter)

 

 

Metris Gas Meters with AMR radio encoder-receiver-transceiver units are used here for a city of 1.2 million customers.
Readings are taken from a helicopter which buzzes along a grid once a month at 4,500ft in the early hours.


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  Reply # 2087240 11-Sep-2018 06:26
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Wish these companies would take a feed from pixometer. I actually record my gas usage everyday. Their app uses ocr to try and identify the digits on. The meter.

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The money calculations are a bit garbage, but the meter reading is the important bit. So if they took a feed from that and it’s set up that I can delete a reading but you can’t alter it, and the image is uploaded also. The app is set up for this purpose.

But yes a smart meter would be great. Maybe the probe that reads can be removed somewhat from the powered electronics




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  Reply # 2087262 11-Sep-2018 08:06
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JonnyCam:

The problem I think is that they need to be battery powered as they are outside, next to a meter of explosive gas.

 

 

That doesn't need battery power, just electrical isolation of the sensor from the electronics. You can get magnetic pulse counters that work with gas meters, with the electronics some distance away. My water meter has about 4m of cable between the sensor and (mains-powered) electronics, mostly because the meter/sensor is outside the house and the electronics are inside, but the principle is the same for gas meters.

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  Reply # 2087264 11-Sep-2018 08:06
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  Reply # 2090947 15-Sep-2018 07:54
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To follow up from Scott3's comment about "Smart Electricity  Meters" the biggest disappointment I had was discovering that they are not really smart, they simply remove the meter reader from the equation and allow the utility companies to read the meters remotely regularly.  You have to ask how we (the Electricity Authority/Government) allowed this sort of dumb tech to be installed when so much more could have been implemented at he same time. Real time readings for the householder allowing them to actively manage their power usage plus proactive management.  One more missed opportunity.


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  Reply # 2092239 18-Sep-2018 00:40
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prevaljo:

To follow up from Scott3's comment about "Smart Electricity  Meters" the biggest disappointment I had was discovering that they are not really smart, they simply remove the meter reader from the equation and allow the utility companies to read the meters remotely regularly.  You have to ask how we (the Electricity Authority/Government) allowed this sort of dumb tech to be installed when so much more could have been implemented at he same time. Real time readings for the householder allowing them to actively manage their power usage plus proactive management.  One more missed opportunity.



Real time readings open up potential security issues. Both for the meter itself, and the security of your house. As a burglar could use real time electricity data to see if you are at home or not. While exposing a communications interface on the electricity meter to untrusted users, increases the risk that the meter could be hacked. Or could allow denial of service, resource depletion attacks, leakage of encryption keys etc, to be carried out on the meter.

If you want real time monitoring of your electricity usage. There are 3rd party devices you can install independently of the electricity meter to achieve that.

And the smart meters as rolled out. Already allow time of use pricing, demand limiting, capacity based pricing etc. Main problem is the electricity low user regulations. As they severely limit innovation in pricing and service's that can be provided to residential customers.





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  Reply # 2101509 4-Oct-2018 13:25
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EDMI (who make most of the smart meters in NZ) are now rolling them out in the UK: https://www.edmi-meters.com/product/meters/gas-metering-devices/gs-60b/

 

It looks like they're battery powered. No mention of life.

 

 

 

neb:
JonnyCam:

 

The problem I think is that they need to be battery powered as they are outside, next to a meter of explosive gas.

 

That doesn't need battery power, just electrical isolation of the sensor from the electronics. You can get magnetic pulse counters that work with gas meters, with the electronics some distance away. My water meter has about 4m of cable between the sensor and (mains-powered) electronics, mostly because the meter/sensor is outside the house and the electronics are inside, but the principle is the same for gas meters.

 

In anything but a new build house, you still have the issue of getting either mains power, low voltage, pneumatic tube or whatever out to where the meter is. Electric meters are just a drop-in replacement.


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