Total home renovation - home automation advice please

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RaglanDan

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#280390 12-Dec-2020 07:23

We've had a total house renovation forced upon us by a house fire (faulty dishwasher, not much actual fire damage but near total smoke damage to the interior and aluminium joinery).

So with this pain also comes an opportunity. The house is currently completely stripped back to the framing and I need to make a plan over the Christmas break on what to do in terms of home automation. All the wiring is in place (we can add more obviously if needed) but all the fittings (switches, lights etc) need replacing.

I'm keen to control the following things:

At least the shared use space lights - possibly all lights if price allows
The garage door - open close remotely and be able to know if it is open or closed
Pool pump
Coffee machine
Heating/Cooling system - not sure what this is yet but hoping to go ducted heat pump

Before this happened I was looking longingly at the Shelley 1 (and Shelley 1PM) combined with Home Assistant to retro-fit in key places. Is this still the best option? Or if I'm replacing the switches is there an integrated smart switch option that's better or more cost effective?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

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#2620371 12-Dec-2020 07:36

My only advice is, whatever you choose, plan to pull it all out and replace it in the future. Home automation products aren't exactly known for their longevity in the market.

I'm currently using Shelly 1s as these are an easy retrofit solution. I hate using Wifi, but unlike most people, I'm not tied to it for any other reason. I'll be taking a more DIY approach when I build, but I have modest requirements - simple on and off, maybe some dimming control (DMX) and heating.

hairy1

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#2620375 12-Dec-2020 08:07

What @SirHumphreyAppleby said.

It is a fast moving market and whatever you put in is likely to be obsolescent sooner rather than later.

Device aggregation is hard. Best of the bunch is Home Assistant but it is not exactly plug and play yet.

I have jumped into Shelly along with Home Assistant and not regretted it. It seems the best option today as the Shelly's are cheap, work well with any switch and could be replaced easily in the future.

You could go down the Brilliant Smart line which have nice switches....

Cheers, Matt.

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davidcole

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#2620378 12-Dec-2020 08:14

Or: https://www.superhouse.tv/26-make-your-own-home-automation-light-switches/

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jnimmo

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#2620381 12-Dec-2020 08:22

Even though it's more expensive, I'd still go with Fibaro or Aotec Z-Wave dimmers/relays if I were putting in automation, or maybe Zigbee (I haven't tried it). It's helpful these devices form a mesh and are not reliant on wifi.

rogercruse

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#2620389 12-Dec-2020 09:01

We live in a newly build house and have an integrated system for low voltage lighting, ducted heating / cooling with hot water, security. All controllable via a mobile phone app (and one day via Alexa!).

We suggest you talk to your electrician about the options available to you. Probaby much cheaper to design a solution to meet your needs than taking an ad-hoc approach based on the latest shiny products.

davidcole

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#2620408 12-Dec-2020 10:02

jnimmo:
Even though it's more expensive, I'd still go with Fibaro or Aotec Z-Wave dimmers/relays if I were putting in automation, or maybe Zigbee (I haven't tried it). It's helpful these devices form a mesh and are not reliant on wifi.

They can (zwave). Just decide not to be online though....just randomly after working fine for months. And need a restart. I’ve started going off zwave as a solution because of this. Would prefer Shelly as I can control the WiFi better than some black box mesh. As you have no control over the neighbours is zwave networks

richms

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#2620410 12-Dec-2020 10:13

I would not recommend zigbee anything with all the dramas I have with them. The whole concept of a mesh is flawed compared to wifi where there are multiple APs and things can just connect to any of them. With multiple zigbee bases the devices have to be paired to one of them and if the mesh changes between base and device it can be a very long time before you get input from the sensor again. Whereas the wifi sensors I have just have a short delay if I have powered off the AP they were connected thru.

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hairy1

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#2620423 12-Dec-2020 10:33

I would love something like the Shelly 4 Pro if I was building a new house. I think that concept will work well in the future.

https://shelly.cloud/products/shelly-4pro-smart-home-automation-relay/

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RaglanDan

8 posts

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#2621142 14-Dec-2020 06:35

hairy1:

What @SirHumphreyAppleby said.

It is a fast moving market and whatever you put in is likely to be obsolescent sooner rather than later.

Device aggregation is hard. Best of the bunch is Home Assistant but it is not exactly plug and play yet.

I have jumped into Shelly along with Home Assistant and not regretted it. It seems the best option today as the Shelly's are cheap, work well with any switch and could be replaced easily in the future.

You could go down the Brilliant Smart line which have nice switches....

Cheers, Matt.

Yeah well aware that it's a bit of a minefield but confident enough that I should be able to cope with Home Assistant. The Brilliant smart switches look like a great option thanks - I hadn't seen them yet.

RaglanDan

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2621143 14-Dec-2020 06:37

SirHumphreyAppleby:

My only advice is, whatever you choose, plan to pull it all out and replace it in the future. Home automation products aren't exactly known for their longevity in the market.

I'm currently using Shelly 1s as these are an easy retrofit solution. I hate using Wifi, but unlike most people, I'm not tied to it for any other reason. I'll be taking a more DIY approach when I build, but I have modest requirements - simple on and off, maybe some dimming control (DMX) and heating.

Thanks - I'm definitely conscious that this is a fast moving space and that I might head down the wrong path! Why the hate for using Wi-Fi?

RaglanDan

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2621144 14-Dec-2020 06:38

davidcole: Or: https://www.superhouse.tv/26-make-your-own-home-automation-light-switches/

This is probably a bit too DIY for my skill level and time commitments! Looks interesting though.

RaglanDan

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2621145 14-Dec-2020 06:39

rogercruse:

We live in a newly build house and have an integrated system for low voltage lighting, ducted heating / cooling with hot water, security. All controllable via a mobile phone app (and one day via Alexa!).

We suggest you talk to your electrician about the options available to you. Probaby much cheaper to design a solution to meet your needs than taking an ad-hoc approach based on the latest shiny products.

We aren't at the stage of having an electrician yet - the insurance process is a VERY slow moving beast... But will definitely be seeking their advice before committing to anything.

RaglanDan

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2621149 14-Dec-2020 06:52

hairy1:

I would love something like the Shelly 4 Pro if I was building a new house. I think that concept will work well in the future.

https://shelly.cloud/products/shelly-4pro-smart-home-automation-relay/

Whoah! - hadn't seen this yet. That looks very interesting indeed.

SirHumphreyAppleby

2844 posts

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#2621155 14-Dec-2020 07:26

RaglanDan:

Thanks - I'm definitely conscious that this is a fast moving space and that I might head down the wrong path! Why the hate for using Wi-Fi?

Our Wifi is used by about four devices, sporadically. It's undesirable to maintain a system purely for a few IoT devices. This will be the case for many people as the Wifi standards move on, and IoT devices are still stuck on 802.11n. I'm not sure how 802.11ac and future standards will play with older standards, but it used to be that mixing old and new resulted in a significant slow down. There is also the issue of interference if multiple networks are deployed.

Wifi also has extremely high latency, which isn't suitable in a time critical environment. If you press a button, you want the system to respond immediately, not a second later. I recently moved our alarm system to being MQTT-based, largely as a prototype for my own automation system. I have a driveway sensor that should sound a buzzer for ~1500ms when triggered, however, with Wifi variability, this is often much shorter/longer. I could add a second AP nearer to the alarm, or add code to pulse outputs for a specific period of time. Both issues go away with a simple bit of wire.

Given the cost of construction, budgeting a few hundred dollars per room for wiring, SBC and some relays isn't a big deal. My plan is to (almost) literally put a computer in every room.

davidcole

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#2621157 14-Dec-2020 07:38

Short of wifi, and the solution that I posted where lights are individually wired back to a relay at the power board, there's not a lot of hard wired options for lighting.

I use zwave...and generally for my light switches its ok, but I do have issues occasionally with nodes going funny, more the portable smart switch ones (plug in for controlling a device), it will be fine for weeks and then suddenly offline. I've been supplimenting those with the brilliant smart switches, flashed as tasmota on the wifi (dedicated IOT network).

I have some shelly 1pms as well, that are not yet installed, that will go on the same network.

It's much easier for me to add a $150 AP to add to my unifi set up, then spend days tying to move zwave devices around to soo if I can make a device 1m away from the controller route properly.

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