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PaulL

91 posts

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#284349 15-Apr-2021 13:09
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I have a set of Dakota Alert sensors - basically an IR sensor setup with a radio transmitter to base, used to alarm for people/vehicles approaching.  https://dakotaalert.com/product/bba-4k-plus-solar-powered-wireless-infrared-break-beam-kit/.  I've connected to a Raspberry Pi to provide a push alert to my phone when people are coming: https://technpol.wordpress.com/2021/01/22/arriving-visitors-alerted-to-your-phone-or-watch/ 

 

They are solar powered, and installed in a shaded area.  The retailer reckoned the solar panels would still be sufficient, but they were wrong (which I suspected).  The solar panels are vertical, so even in full sun I think would be working hard to keep the unit powered (although they are quite large for my assumed power draw).  They are therefore running flat and stopping working.

 

They have a charging port, and can be charged with the 12v 0.5A wall charger that also runs the radio receiver.

 

I am working to plug in a larger solar panel to them, on a wire, so that I can put the extra solar panel in a sunnier position more oriented towards the sun.  I have so far installed this panel https://www.jaycar.co.nz/12v-5w-solar-panel-with-clips/p/ZM9050?pos=17&queryId=ed57dc8a769c96d4073fa7cd57546211&sort=relevance, plus this charge controller: https://www.jaycar.co.nz/miniature-12v-3a-pwm-solar-charge-controller/p/MP3762?pos=2&queryId=d7df5dce5cb3b1db7954ab0440b3b9cc&sort=relevance, plus some cabling, waterproof box etc.

 

The panel is often shaded, and looks to provide about 3-5v a lot of the time.  I don't think it's sufficiently charging.  My hypothesis is that although the charge light comes on, it actually isn't getting enough voltage to charge at all (it doesn't look to need much current, but clearly if you don't have enough voltage it won't charge).

 

So, with that background, the question.  I want to increase the voltage I'm getting, and I understand I still won't get much current.  My schoolboy electronics knowledge says I can wire two solar panels in series to in theory give me 24V total.  My reading and observation of the panels tells me that the rated voltage and actual delivered voltage bear little resemblance, and the delivered voltage depends on sunlight.  So, I have two situations:

 

1. The panels are shaded, and deliver about 5-6V each, so by wiring in series I get 12V total.  I think the units actually need 7.5V to charge (and are therefore limiting the 12V input to 7.5V internally anyway), so this would work fine

 

2. The panels get full sunlight for a while, in which case they deliver 12-15V each, and I get a total of up to 30V.  As I understand it the charge controller will automatically cap this to 12V, so I still won't fry my equipment.

 

Is this sound logic, or am I missing something obvious?

 

Thanks,


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timmmay
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  #2693240 15-Apr-2021 13:12
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Can you just move the extra solar panel further away so it's in the sun?




PaulL

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  #2693241 15-Apr-2021 13:15
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Not without a very long wire.  It's on a south facing hillside in native bush.  If I made the wire that long, I could probably plug it into a power socket instead, but I'd prefer not have a wire that's 200m long going back to the house.

 

Arguably I could climb a tree and mount the panel high enough off the ground to get light.  But seemed easier (and safer) to wire two in series.


timmmay
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  #2693253 15-Apr-2021 13:38
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I guess based on lessons years ago two in series would give you a higher voltage, but if sunlight hits them you might end up putting 30+V into the regulator. I don't know if it'll work or not.




frankv
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  #2693280 15-Apr-2021 14:39
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You will get a voltage drop across long wires, especially if they're thin. And across bad connections.

 

I don't know if you can treat solar cells like batteries and connect them in series. I'd check up on that. I expect that they are like batteries in that if there's more current drawn than they can supply, the voltage will sag.

 

Instead of a second panel, get a step-up DC-DC converter that increases the voltage. They're a *lot* cheaper than solar panels. It takes (say) 6V @ 1A from your panel and converts it to (say) 12V @ 0.5A. You set it to whatever output voltage you want. I don't know what the effect of varying input voltage is on the output voltage, but I'm thinking not much... it will vary the current instead.

 

Mount your solar panel at about 45 degrees (depending on your latitude) and facing due north (about 20 degrees west of magnetic north) to maximise your charge.

 

 


sen8or
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  #2693282 15-Apr-2021 14:46
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it can be done, but you will need a 12v battery (something like a 7ah for an alarm panel) and a trickle charger. The solar panel powers the trickle charger which recharges the batteries and the batteries power the detectors. You may find this fails if there is a long period of no sun. We had a building alarmed using this method for about 12 months, we had to replace the batteries a few times (due to low sun levels and not enough solar to recharge the battery) but if you keep an eye on things, its doable.


PaulL

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  #2693285 15-Apr-2021 14:53
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The units already have batteries in them, and solar cells to keep those batteries charged.  I'm aiming to use the extra solar panels to supplement the existing ones on the basis that they're shaded and therefore insufficiently large to keep it topped off.  Do I still need additional batteries in that situation - seems to me I shouldn't?


timmmay
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  #2693296 15-Apr-2021 15:23
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How about a remotely mounted laser pointing at the current solar panel? Mostly kidding...


 
 
 

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frankv
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  #2693316 15-Apr-2021 16:19
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timmmay:

 

How about a remotely mounted laser pointing at the current solar panel? Mostly kidding...

 

 

Or a mirror?


PaulL

91 posts

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  #2693419 15-Apr-2021 19:02
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Sigh.  I assume the lack of people saying "it'll explode if you do that" means that it's relatively safe, it just might not be as effective as I'd like?  The panels are pretty cheap, so no harm in trying.


timmmay
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  #2693505 15-Apr-2021 20:57
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PaulL:

 

Sigh.  I assume the lack of people saying "it'll explode if you do that" means that it's relatively safe, it just might not be as effective as I'd like?  The panels are pretty cheap, so no harm in trying.

 

 

I don't think the absence of someone saying bad idea means it's a good idea. A quick google says it's possible. You'll want to work out the maximum voltage your controller can take, which according to the limited specs I could find might be about 15V. If you might get direct sunlight on the panel you could get 32V there which might damage it or your equipment it's powering.


PaulL

91 posts

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  #2693520 15-Apr-2021 21:47
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Indeed.  But I'm looking for information about what might be a bad idea about it.

 

I perhaps have a misconception about what a PWM charge controller does.  I had understood it basically reduces the input voltage by turning off and on very fast, then smoothing the resulting output with a capacitor or something - so basically you get 15v for 2ms, then 0v for 1ms, then 15v for 2ms.  And the capacitor smooths that to 10v average.  So I thought it would protect from over voltage.  I agree the specifications I can find tell me nothing, they tell me bulk voltage, but I'm not sure if that's the same thing as max voltage.  Do you know what a bulk voltage is?

 

Certainly when I last put the multimeter on it it seemed to be giving about 5v, which won't be enough to charge anything.  So I need to change something.


timmmay
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  #2693526 15-Apr-2021 22:15
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The voltage multiplier mentioned earlier is worth considering.

wellygary
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  #2693576 16-Apr-2021 09:26
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The easiest option might simply to get a motorbike/car  battery and use that to provide power via the charging port.- and every couple of months bring it back to the house and charge it up from the mains...

 

Solar is great, but you need to have good aspects to make it work well


PaulL

91 posts

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  #2693578 16-Apr-2021 09:30
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That is a good point.  I was hoping for something that was more set and forget, but you're right, just charging a large 12v battery might work more easily.

 

I do think I get an issue with current if I'm not careful - a lead acid battery can deliver a lot of current, and I think I fry the batteries in the units if I drive too much current into them.  Is that a legitimate concern?


timmmay
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  #2693584 16-Apr-2021 09:39
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Car alternators can generate 70A according to an auto electrician I was talking to recently, so I think they're pretty robust. Charging a larger battery occasionally is practical but a bit annoying.


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