Paradox house alarm

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Paradox house alarm

aucklander

477 posts

Ultimate Geek

#288987 5-Aug-2021 09:13

Hi all,

I am looking to have a house alarm installed (everything was pre-wired with 4-core security cable during a recent renovation / extension). Trying to decide between SP5500 and MG5050. The configuration I am after comes pretty much at the same overall cost, MG5050 option ends up approx $75 more expensive (incl gst). Various installers gave me a price but they have no interest in explaining some of the features and what functionality I can get and what not, I believe is because most of them would not have any idea about these issues I am raising as they a bit above the average client they come across?...

The number of PGMs available is important for me, the SP5500 option includes a PGM4 module (which gives me 6x PGMs in total) and the MG5050 option has 4x PGMs built-in.

I am looking at both options as I wanted more PGMs than the 2x on the SP5500 PCB, the intention being to have garage door and actuated gate + exterior lights (landscaping) on the other PGMs. The garage door and the gate will also be controlled from the remotes REM15. The rest of the PGMs will only be controlled from a touch screen TM50, I foresee to have a decent "wow" factor when activating the landscape lights from the touch screen... The TM50 is also included in both configurations.

Both options also include wireless connectivity and 2x remotes REM15 plus internet connectivity and the 3 yr subscription to have this working. So I am confident both options would do pretty much the same apart from the different number of PGMs (I get 6x PGMs with the SP5500 + PGM4 option, which is also marginally lower cost).

QUESTION 1:

is it worth going for MG5050 (more expensive and gives me only 4x PGMs)? Any reason to opt for this one over the SP5500?

They will both have wireless (MG5050 has it built-in) so they will both accept wireless sensors in the future if I want to expand the system. Is this a wrong assumption?

QUESTION 2:

from what I can see in the manuals, there is only one siren output on the PCB? My configuration includes 3x internal sirens and of course, one external. Plus 6x PIR sensors (1x in garage + 4x ground floor + 1x on first floor). In case any sensor is triggered I assume all sirens go off at once?

Is it possible to have sirens and sensors grouped somehow, so let's say when the garage sensor goes off then only the siren in the garage is activated, if a sensor on ground floor is activated only the siren on ground floor is activated, and so on? Of course, the external siren is active when any internal siren is active.

QUESTION 3:

I will also have 3x smoke sensors (garage / ground floor / first floor). I guess I can get an email when one of them is activated, so that's OK. But I am unclear if the sirens are activated when a smoke detector is triggered? That would be a real nuisance. The preference would be the sirens are NOT activated because of the smoke sensors. Generally, a smoke sensor would go off when you are actually home and it would be because of cooking...

QUESTION 4:

the manual for TM50 and all pictures on internet refer to the option to connect an exterior temperature sensor and have outside temp permanently displayed on the screen. The internal temp will be displayed anyway, as the TM50 apparently has a built-in temp sensor. The problem is that all suppliers I contacted never heard of this option and on Paradox website this part (TEMP07) is shown as being discontinued! But the TM50s are still manufactured and advertised as capable to display outside temp using the optional TEMP07. I believe I came across somewhere (but I cannot remember where), with a confirmation that this sensor is nothing else than a standard NTC 10k temperature probe ($4 on Trade Me, for example). Does anyone have any experience in adding the temp sensor to the TM50 panel? Is it indeed an NTC 10k suitable (and accurate)? Websites in USA and Europe still sell this part number and apparently each comes with a label attached showing a "calibration factor" which needs to be entered into the TM50 interface?... Unfortunately the NTC 10k sensors do not appear to come with such "calibration factor"... and the sensors from these companies cost 15 - 25 USD + $30 postage to NZ...

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

Yoban

447 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2755503 5-Aug-2021 09:50

I too and reviewing my aging alarm system and your design spark some interest.

It would seem that the calibration is nothing more than getting a reference temperature using some other source and "dialing it up" form within the TM50 as per How to calibration temperature sensor on Paradox alarm system /TM 50 example/ spectra, dgp - YouTube

davidcole

6029 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2755510 5-Aug-2021 09:58

Smoke detectors do set off the siren, at least mine do. Had a wireless battery one for a while. I think it might have been a little dusty for it, as it used to go off. Noise from the device for a bit, then the sirens would activate. And seemed to chew batteries.

Now I just have the wired ones. I think I had an sp6000 panel, with an expansion board. But I believe I'm only using one PGM output for my garage door.

Exterior Lights I've just gone with a mix of zwave or shelly...and control those in conjunction with the Paradox alarm via openhab (and the Paradox Alarm Interface python program). I don't have their insight gold subscription (my alarm existed before that, and I don't see why I'd pay them to monitor it).

Previously known as psycik

Home Assistant: Gigabyte AMD A8 Brix, Home Assistant with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Shelly Humidity and Temperature sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4 4k, ATV4, HDHomeRun Dual
Server Host Plex Server 3x3TB, 4x4TB using MergerFS, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Proxmox Server with 1xW10, 2xUbuntu 22.04 LTS, Backblaze Backups, usenetprime.com fastmail.com Sharesies Trakt.TV Sharesight

KellyP

1245 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#2755512 5-Aug-2021 10:13

For comparison, I had an SP5500 installed last year to replace an old Micron alarm:

1 x Paradox SP5500 Controller
1 x Paradox LED Horizontal Keypad
1 x Paradox PC3 External Siren
5 x Paradox PIR Intruder Sensors (pet friendly to 18kg)
1 x Photoelectric Smoke Sensor
1 x Paradox Input Expander

+ PCS265LTE 3G/4G GPRS/GSM Communicator Module with SIM card.

$1,965.87 installed.

aucklander

477 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2755520 5-Aug-2021 10:29

James Bond:

For comparison, I had an SP5500 installed last year to replace an old Micron alarm:

$1,965.87 installed.

did the price include wiring, or was the old wiring OK to be fully reused?

mobo Intel DH55PJ, RAM: 4GB RAM, Nova-T 500 HD + Avermedia Trinity tuner card, Geforce 520 video, 120GB SSD Sandisk + 640 WD + 1000SG, Win7 Home Prem 64-bit, Media Portal 1.15.0; BTC 9019URF Cordless Keyboard, Panasonic 55" (HDMI cable), HTPC Case Silverstone Grandia GD05B.

KellyP

1245 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#2755532 5-Aug-2021 10:58

aucklander:

James Bond:

For comparison, I had an SP5500 installed last year to replace an old Micron alarm:

$1,965.87 installed.

did the price include wiring, or was the old wiring OK to be fully reused?

Included new wiring however some of the old wiring was reused as it's a 1908 villa and as a result, some areas are a bit tricky to run new wiring.

My guess is that the Micron alarm was about 15-20 years old.

Daynger

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2756341 6-Aug-2021 20:20

aucklander:

Hi all,

I am looking to have a house alarm installed (everything was pre-wired with 4-core security cable during a recent renovation / extension). Trying to decide between SP5500 and MG5050. The configuration I am after comes pretty much at the same overall cost, MG5050 option ends up approx $75 more expensive (incl gst). Various installers gave me a price but they have no interest in explaining some of the features and what functionality I can get and what not, I believe is because most of them would not have any idea about these issues I am raising as they a bit above the average client they come across?...

The number of PGMs available is important for me, the SP5500 option includes a PGM4 module (which gives me 6x PGMs in total) and the MG5050 option has 4x PGMs built-in.

I am looking at both options as I wanted more PGMs than the 2x on the SP5500 PCB, the intention being to have garage door and actuated gate + exterior lights (landscaping) on the other PGMs. The garage door and the gate will also be controlled from the remotes REM15. The rest of the PGMs will only be controlled from a touch screen TM50, I foresee to have a decent "wow" factor when activating the landscape lights from the touch screen... The TM50 is also included in both configurations.

Im not familiar with the paradox app but if its like the DSC one you can activate all your PGMs from your phone, when i chose my alarm for my workshop two years ago the DSC app was far and above the easiest to set up and use.

Both options also include wireless connectivity and 2x remotes REM15 plus internet connectivity and the 3 yr subscription to have this working. So I am confident both options would do pretty much the same apart from the different number of PGMs (I get 6x PGMs with the SP5500 + PGM4 option, which is also marginally lower cost).

Im pretty sure you can get a PGM expander board for the Magellan alarms, wires into the bus and programs as just more PGMs, if not step up to the EVO48 panel which definitely can have PGM expanders on it (more than one too, up to 48 PGMs if i remember correctly)

QUESTION 1:

is it worth going for MG5050 (more expensive and gives me only 4x PGMs)? Any reason to opt for this one over the SP5500?

They will both have wireless (MG5050 has it built-in) so they will both accept wireless sensors in the future if I want to expand the system. Is this a wrong assumption?

Yes they will both accept wireless detectors if you want to expand your system, but hardwired is always better reliability wise.

QUESTION 2:

from what I can see in the manuals, there is only one siren output on the PCB? My configuration includes 3x internal sirens and of course, one external. Plus 6x PIR sensors (1x in garage + 4x ground floor + 1x on first floor). In case any sensor is triggered I assume all sirens go off at once?

Is it possible to have sirens and sensors grouped somehow, so let's say when the garage sensor goes off then only the siren in the garage is activated, if a sensor on ground floor is activated only the siren on ground floor is activated, and so on? Of course, the external siren is active when any internal siren is active.

You can use PGMs to run different sirens for different areas, you may need to chop the house up into areas for it to work properly so you can arm some areas but leave others disarmed which can be an advantage too. Run the external siren off the main siren output, each other area siren will need its own PGM and be programmed to suit.

QUESTION 3:

I will also have 3x smoke sensors (garage / ground floor / first floor). I guess I can get an email when one of them is activated, so that's OK. But I am unclear if the sirens are activated when a smoke detector is triggered? That would be a real nuisance. The preference would be the sirens are NOT activated because of the smoke sensors. Generally, a smoke sensor would go off when you are actually home and it would be because of cooking...

Or when you are out and its a fire, or asleep and its a fire. Most smoke settings in alarms run the siren, it is also the way i prefer as itll draw attention from not just inside your house but outside too, could save everything you own going up in smoke if a neighbor calls the fire dept.

QUESTION 4:

the manual for TM50 and all pictures on internet refer to the option to connect an exterior temperature sensor and have outside temp permanently displayed on the screen. The internal temp will be displayed anyway, as the TM50 apparently has a built-in temp sensor. The problem is that all suppliers I contacted never heard of this option and on Paradox website this part (TEMP07) is shown as being discontinued! But the TM50s are still manufactured and advertised as capable to display outside temp using the optional TEMP07. I believe I came across somewhere (but I cannot remember where), with a confirmation that this sensor is nothing else than a standard NTC 10k temperature probe ($4 on Trade Me, for example). Does anyone have any experience in adding the temp sensor to the TM50 panel? Is it indeed an NTC 10k suitable (and accurate)? Websites in USA and Europe still sell this part number and apparently each comes with a label attached showing a "calibration factor" which needs to be entered into the TM50 interface?... Unfortunately the NTC 10k sensors do not appear to come with such "calibration factor"... and the sensors from these companies cost 15 - 25 USD + $30 postage to NZ...

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

hsvhel

1237 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2756352 6-Aug-2021 21:05

davidcole:

Smoke detectors do set off the siren, at least mine do. Had a wireless battery one for a while. I think it might have been a little dusty for it, as it used to go off. Noise from the device for a bit, then the sirens would activate. And seemed to chew batteries.

Now I just have the wired ones. I think I had an sp6000 panel, with an expansion board. But I believe I'm only using one PGM output for my garage door.

Exterior Lights I've just gone with a mix of zwave or shelly...and control those in conjunction with the Paradox alarm via openhab (and the Paradox Alarm Interface python program). I don't have their insight gold subscription (my alarm existed before that, and I don't see why I'd pay them to monitor it).

How has the interface been for you to date?

I ask as the insight gold has been 50/50 on notifications or delays on the alarm activity

Referral Link Quic

Free Setup use R502152EQH6OK on check out

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

davidcole

6029 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2756382 7-Aug-2021 07:34

hsvhel:
davidcole:

Smoke detectors do set off the siren, at least mine do. Had a wireless battery one for a while. I think it might have been a little dusty for it, as it used to go off. Noise from the device for a bit, then the sirens would activate. And seemed to chew batteries.

Now I just have the wired ones. I think I had an sp6000 panel, with an expansion board. But I believe I'm only using one PGM output for my garage door.

Exterior Lights I've just gone with a mix of zwave or shelly...and control those in conjunction with the Paradox alarm via openhab (and the Paradox Alarm Interface python program). I don't have their insight gold subscription (my alarm existed before that, and I don't see why I'd pay them to monitor it).

How has the interface been for you to date?

I ask as the insight gold has been 50/50 on notifications or delays on the alarm activity

I get notifications from a couple of places. Via email
One through homekit (Apple) for alarm triggered or arm/disarm
From openHAB via pushover and Slack for arm/disarm and when triggered what zone is in alarm.

They all tend to come within seconds of each other.

sparkz25

750 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2756491 7-Aug-2021 13:01

The paradox wireless PIR's are good, but I prefer the hard wired option, as the wireless ones send a heartbeat and then also when an activation happens this is once every minute or 5 mins I can't remember off the top of my head, they also run on 3AAA batts, and changing those out at least once a year to make sure they are fresh and have some juice would be a pain in my opinion.

the Bell output will drive all 4 sirens no worries providing you don't go over 3Amp as the panel will shut down the bell output, but then you say you want the sirens in the garage only to trigger if there is an activation, if this is the case then you would need another PGM and to assign the Garage its own Area to trigger that PGM.

If you are wanting to group the downstairs and the upstairs and the garage, technically you would need 3 areas and another 3 PGM's, one for each area's sirens.

For the Smokes, it depends on what you set the zone definition as, if it's 24Hr then yes it can set the sirens off, another suggestion would be to use smoke with local sounders and that can also be interfaced to the alarm. so that when you are home then the local sounder will activate and not the smoke providing you have not set the zone definition to 24hours, and only as an instant for when that area is armed.

As For the TM50, I had never noticed that it could support an external Temp sensor.

In my new house, I thought about installing an MG5050 but went with a Gallagher instead, as I could do much more with the Gallagher than I could do with the MG5050, and also programming the MG5050 would be a pain in the bum from the keypad or with babyware.

I have the garage door controlled by the Gallagher with the internal and outside lights turning on whenever the garage door is opened or closed, as the light on the door motor is useless at the best of times. also, the lights can still be controlled independently of the Gallagher and these stay on for 5 mins after the door is triggered.

Push notifications are also set up using the CommandCenter app for my smokes and alarms throughout the house as well as the doorbell, so if someone sets the smoke off I get a push notification and an email, as well as the local sounder on the smoke, will go off, the Doorbell just sends a notification to my phone as I have yet to find a bell that I like or is just a basic dingdong that can run on 12v DC.

This system also controls 2 other properties in Auckland at different locations, as well as a commercial door at one property and at another, it's controlling all the lights in a workshop and alarms with the same setup for the commercial roller doors and a sectional door, all the lights are also able to be controlled from the command center app and send notifications all to my phone from either system.

The remotes for my Garage door at home work on all the doors that have been set up for remotes Auckland, and the best part is I can just add more I/O Modules to the system to do whatever I want in the future or add more systems at a different location providing it has internet at that location.

There was a guy a while back here on GZ that had some Gallagher gear kicking about that he was looking at offloading if this sounds like the path you might like to take.