Sennheiser IE200 or IE600?

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dafman

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#306082 26-Jun-2023 16:30

I currently use Sennheiser True Wireless 2 for daily commuting, biking and listening to music.

I absolutely love my TW2, but I’ve thinking of complimenting these with a lightweight wired set for listening to lossless - at the moment, ALAC downloaded onto iPhone 12 from Radio Paradise.

I’m not intending to use a DAC (at this stage).

I am drawn to the IE 200, primarily as on price, plus they get great reviews, are a new release and look understated in plain black.

But in reading reviews, I wonder if I should stump up the extra for the IE 600 - pretty much every review I have read says they are superior sound quality. There is a huge price difference though, $230 vs $1,000!

I know that if I enjoy lossless through IEM, I will want to upgrade. Should I buy the IE 200 initially, use for a year or so, then pass onto partner and upgrade? Maybe wait for the IE 600 replacement in due course?

Or just spend the extra from the get go and get the better set (but are they worth close to $800 more?).

I see the IE 300 are on sale at the moment, but I am keen on moving to a more neutral soundstage rather than the v-shaped emphasised bass and treble of the 300.

I am a Sennheiser fan, apart from my Sony XM2, I have only ever purchased Senns, so unlikely to consider any other brands.

I look forward to any thoughts or comments, cheers

networkn

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#3095148 26-Jun-2023 17:17

A couple of things to consider..

That is a huge price difference, will you notice the sound difference whilst commuting? I think I'd struggle except in a dedicated audiophile listening environment possibly. I say that as someone with an eye-watering number of headphones of all different types.

I've owned and tried a number of True Wireless, and like you, I have owned and tried a fair number of Sens. I recently got to try the new Flagship Technics AZ80's and they are *incredible*. I have the TW2's as well. My TW2's will be on TM next week.

Personally, I'd start with the 200's if you really want IEM's rather than an upgrade in sound from your True Wireless ones, and if you really feel you aren't getting the most from them, consider an upgrade.

amanzi

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#3095160 26-Jun-2023 17:48

I've seen some reviews on the IE 600 and they look amazing. I don't know much about the IE 200, but from what I have seen they seem to be pretty good. I guess it depends on what you're after - you can't really compare $1000 vs $230 IEMs. Do you really want to commute or bike with $1000 IEMs? But keen to hear what you end up with, I've been wanting to get some new IEMs after upgrading my headphones.

Will you just use the little idongle thing to get audio out of your iPhone? Or can you get lightning connector cables?

dafman

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#3095163 26-Jun-2023 17:54

networkn:

A couple of things to consider..

That is a huge price difference, will you notice the sound difference whilst commuting? I think I'd struggle except in a dedicated audiophile listening environment possibly. I say that as someone with an eye-watering number of headphones of all different types.

I've owned and tried a number of True Wireless, and like you, I have owned and tried a fair number of Sens. I recently got to try the new Flagship Technics AZ80's and they are *incredible*. I have the TW2's as well. My TW2's will be on TM next week.

Personally, I'd start with the 200's if you really want IEM's rather than an upgrade in sound from your True Wireless ones, and if you really feel you aren't getting the most from them, consider an upgrade.

Thanks. I’ll probably alternate between the wired and TW2 for daily commute, but definitely want wired for more quiet listening.

The 200’s will be an upgrade to the TW2, so seems a sensible first step. I listen to a lot of music, but this is my first foray into entry level audiophile-grade sound quality - to date, the TW2 have been my best IEM for sound quality.

Maybe the 200’s and a DAC, which would still be a lot less expensive than the 600s? Worthwhile? If yes, any recommendations?

Ideally, I’d like one that can be used interchangeably between iPhone (lightening) and iPad (USB C).

networkn

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#3095164 26-Jun-2023 17:55

You'll probably know this, but the law of diminishing returns applies in audio right now (and the last couple of years), more than any time I can recall. There are $300-500USD Amp's which are equal to or in many cases significantly better than a $3K one from 3-5 years ago (Topping A90 for example).

IEM's aren't going to be any different. You are not going to get 4 x the performance from a $1000 pair than you get from $200 pair, I'd be surprised if most people could determine mid-single-digit differences, especially without amplification, depending on the IEM/Headphone. Anything you are likely able to determine in difference will be offset by any environmental noise you are introducing.

networkn

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#3095167 26-Jun-2023 18:02

dafman:

Thanks. I’ll probably alternate between the wired and TW2 for daily commute, but definitely want wired for more quiet listening.

The 200’s will be an upgrade to the TW2, so seems a sensible first step. I listen to a lot of music, but this is my first foray into entry level audiophile-grade sound quality - to date, the TW2 have been my best IEM for sound quality.

Maybe the 200’s and a DAC, which would still be a lot less expensive than the 600s? Worthwhile? If yes, any recommendations?

Ideally, I’d like one that can be used interchangeably between iPhone (lightening) and iPad (USB C).

The TW2 are very capable TW head buds. They were considered for quite some time to be amongst the best sound-quality TW earbuds.

Can't help with Apple recommendations sorry, I don't own any (Though the cheap apple one gets universal praise for it's price). I pair my headphones of all types when I am mobile or travelling, with my Chord Mojo (likely overkill for your needs, but I got it for $150!!) and I got a $25 USB Dac from A2A NZ recently. Seems to work really well.

Swamphen

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#3095335 27-Jun-2023 10:52

I think the extra costs associated with the IE 600's are going to be lost without going through a DAC. Pay attention to the reviews as to whether they're using one, and I'll bet most of the ones for the 600's are. It's often the case that the higher-end stuff will never sound as good as it can so long as you're limited by the in-built DAC of whatever you're listening through (e.g. phone).

If you're planning to get one in the future, getting the 600s might be worth it, and you'll be able to better compare what DAC brings to the table in terms of listening quality. But if not, stick with the IE 200's, in my opinion.

You may already be aware, but the current IE### line is iirc the first "new" product line since Sonova bought out the Sennheiser brand in 2021. Sonova's a well-respected company in its own right, and specializes in in-ear hearing aids (and cochlear implants), but there's always the possibility of some kind of growing pains when you're you're combining two tech lines (even two well-known and respected tech lines) together, new factory, new tooling etc. I haven't tried any of them so I can't say for sure, though.

dafman

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#3095519 27-Jun-2023 17:33

Thanks @amanzi, @networkn, @Swamphen for comments. Currently on holiday in South Island and have ordered a pair of IE200 which I pick up on Saturday and will get a couple of remaining holiday days to spend time with them.

I suspect I will like them, a lot. I will probably add a DAC to the 200s in a few months, then, knowing myself, will likely upgrade the 200s - but will stick with them for a while to justify cost outlay before I hand them on to family.

So any DAC recommendations appreciated - need to be portable and work with both lightening and USB C.

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networkn

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#3095525 27-Jun-2023 17:41

dafman:
Thanks @amanzi, @networkn, @Swamphen for comments. Currently on holiday in South Island and have ordered a pair of IE200 which I pick up on Saturday and will get a couple of remaining holiday days to spend time with them.

I suspect I will like them, a lot. I will probably add a DAC to the 200s in a few months, then, knowing myself, will likely upgrade the 200s - but will stick with them for a while to justify cost outlay before I hand them on to family.

So any DAC recommendations appreciated - need to be portable and work with both lightening and USB C.

Start with the apple DAC cable. It's under $30.

Or do you mean DAC/amp?

amanzi

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#3095528 27-Jun-2023 18:03

dafman:

So any DAC recommendations appreciated - need to be portable and work with both lightening and USB C.

I use a Fiio BTR5 which is a nice little portable DAC/headphone amp. You can connect to it via USB-C or bluetooth and has both 2.5mm balanced and 3.5mm headphone jacks. I'm not a real stickler for audio quality - I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a $200 DAC and a $2000 DAC. But the BTR5 sounds great and has plenty of power.

fe31nz

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#3095659 28-Jun-2023 00:39

dafman:

So any DAC recommendations appreciated - need to be portable and work with both lightening and USB C.

Portable DACs normally work with any USB - the data rate needed is low enough that USB 2.0 is fine. And USB C on phones and tablets is usually USB 2.0 anyway, up until this year's models. So any USB with the right adapter is likely to work with a DAC, at least from the point of view of getting a data connection. Above that, the device needs to support the USB audio protocols that are a standard part of Linux. All Linux PCs will be compatible, and Windows normally works too. However, not all phones and tablets are compatible with DACs, so you need to check before buying a portable DAC whether it is compatible with your specific devices. There are a couple of (pay) apps for Android that can make devices compatible and do some extra support for DACs and DAC special features. I paid for a copy of "USB Audio Player Pro" to do this for me and I am quite happy with it. There are probably Apple equivalents.

I have not met any DACs that work with lightning connections - I thought Apple was phasing them out anyway in favour of USB C. There are lightning to USB converters, but I have no idea if they would work for the audio protocols used by DACs.

As for the choice of a DAC, it depends on what you want. There are huge numbers out there in the market now, and lots of quite good ones at fairly reasonable prices. I am an audiophile so when I bought myself a new DAC recently, I went for a FiiO Q7 DAC + headphone amp. It was new at the time and their latest top end model. I am very happy with it from the audio quality point of view. The user interface is less good, but still quite usable. I have only been using it connected to my Sennheiser HD600 headphones, and it drives them well. It also has the option to convert the headphone outputs to line out to drive an amplifier and speakers, but I have not tried that yet. But it was not cheap - just under $1500 delivered.

The thing that some people seem to miss when thinking about getting a DAC is that DACs do not output to Bluetooth devices, for the simple reason that they would be sending digital data if they did that, which is the job of a pure digital device or an ADC (analogue to digital converter), not a DAC (digital to analogue converter). DACs only output analogue audio. Most DACs have Bluetooth input, but if you value the quality of the sound, you should never use Bluetooth input as the codecs available for it all compress the audio. When using a good DAC, you want to send the completely unmodified digital data to the DAC for it to convert, not data that has been reprocessed and compressed via a Bluetooth interface. So use the USB or S/PDIF or TOSLINK input, all of which involve a cable, or if your DAC supports it, you could use WiFi input. But WiFi support in portable DACs is rare.

FiiO Q7:

https://www.fiio.com/q7

I got my Q7 from Addicted To Audio (bought from NZ shop, shipped from Australia):

https://addictedtoaudio.co.nz/products/fiio-q7-portable-dac-headphone-amplifier

but it looks like Computer Lounge stocks them now, and there may be other places too:

https://www.computerlounge.co.nz/shop/audio/interface/headphone-amplifier/dac-combos/fiio-q7-portable-dac-and-headphone-amplifier

dafman

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#3100375 5-Jul-2023 18:48

Ok, I’ve had the IE200’s for a few days and I absolutely love them. I’m getting good isolation with the mid-size silicon ear tips and these headphones are so super comfortable to wear.

Sound quality is amazing. I am really loving neutral sound signature of these.

Phone iPhone 12

Comparison 1. IE200 with 256 kps YouTube music vs IE200 with Radio Paradise ALAC download

I’d describe YouTube as a wall of music - I can distinguish instruments, but they tend to merge together, and bass is overemphasised and muddy.

Radio Paradise ALAC is more separate instruments that play together in unison. And bass is much more natural, not overemphasised.

Comparison 2. Radio Paradise ALAC download with IE200 versus Radio Paradise ALAC downloand with Sennheiser True Wireless 2

More of a night and day difference than comparison 1. IE200 are just so much more refined with greater distinguishable clarity between instruments. And vocals are much cleaner. The IE200s are just beautifully nuanced. Up until now I had loved the TW2, but the 200’s are definitely next level.

At this stage I’ll hold off looking at DACs. My main listening will be Radio Paradise ALAC downloads and I am absolutely chuffed with the quality using the IE200s with the Apple lightening to 3.5mm.

(but ask me again in a few months).

networkn

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#3100436 5-Jul-2023 22:40

Awesome to hear you like them.