CGA Question on Gaming Laptop

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Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#306977 9-Sep-2023 14:31

In October 2022 I purchased a mid range Asus gaming laptop from an Auckland computer retailer. Approx $4k.

I unboxed and started it up and all went well for a short while until I noticed intermittently it would lose connection to the internet (ethernet) after waking from sleep. I either had to reboot or reset the ethernet adapter. This occurred probably 5-10% of the time and started to annoy me.

I contacted the retailer who suggested I refresh the OS(win 11). I did this twice and it didnt resolve any issues. I also was getting a BSOD (rarely) when gaming and using a chrome window.

Contacted the retailer again as I had already opened an RMA ticket with them. Was told they would seek advice from manufacturer(Asus).

I decided this was all too much and I reverted back to my old desktop machine and waited for a response.

In July I decided it needed to be sorted so a return was arranged from South Island to Auckland. Sometime later the retailer recreated the error although wasnt as frequent as I had found and they returned the machine to Asus for repair.

Asus advised it needed a new mother board and it would take a few weeks to arrive.

Machine finally arrived back a week or so ago and to my dismay the error was still happening. I once again did a OS refresh(from cloud) and it didnt help.

I was taking pics of the events showing the no internet(ethernet) and the error with network adapter in Device Manager and sending them to the retailer.

Computer retailer advised me last week that they wanted it back in Auckland to prove to Asus the error still existed.

I decided I didnt want to do this and requested a full refund so I can purchase a different laptop. They indicated only Asus can do this and more proof required. I explained that under CGA the computer retailer has to offer me a solution and not the manufacturer. This was an out of the box machine and had not been opened by the retailer.

Retailer still seems adamant that nothing will happen until they reprove to Asus that the fix didnt work. I dont really want to send it away again for a second time as I believe it to be a software issue between Ausus drivers and windows.

Am I within my rights to demand a refund or should I keep doing what the retailer requests?

Sorry for the long ramble.

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1306 posts

Uber Geek

#3125419 9-Sep-2023 17:57

Not really CGA focused but if it’s an Intel adapter then there are a few bug reports around it not resuming from sleep. Troubleshooting either recommends disabling all power saving features and making sure similar is set in bios too along with drivers updated to latest from Intel.

But as for returning it, it depends on if it’s accepted as a common fault since it is working in ‘most’ situations i.e. as long as it’s not put to sleep. Anything further and you might have to take it to disputes.

weasel13

38 posts

Geek

#3125455 9-Sep-2023 20:34

I don't think you will have much luck rejecting it under the CGA yet. It would very considered reasonable for them to attempt to fix it a second time. If they can't fix the fault this time around then you would have stronger grounds for rejecting the laptop and seeking a refund.
In case you're not aware, the retailer can't make you pay shipping costs for returning it for repair.

networkn

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#3125459 9-Sep-2023 21:10

weasel13: I don't think you will have much luck rejecting it under the CGA yet. It would very considered reasonable for them to attempt to fix it a second time. If they can't fix the fault this time around then you would have stronger grounds for rejecting the laptop and seeking a refund.
In case you're not aware, the retailer can't make you pay shipping costs for returning it for repair.

Whilst I feel for the OP and the inconvenience caused, I agree, one attempt to resolve an intermittent issue would probably prove too little.

Send it to them one more time. If it comes back again, then it's definitely rejectable.

Handle9

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#3125469 9-Sep-2023 21:43

weasel13: I don't think you will have much luck rejecting it under the CGA yet. It would very considered reasonable for them to attempt to fix it a second time. If they can't fix the fault this time around then you would have stronger grounds for rejecting the laptop and seeking a refund.
In case you're not aware, the retailer can't make you pay shipping costs for returning it for repair.

You are incorrect that they have the right to fix it a second time. OP has the right to reject the goods as they have a failure of substantial character “ a problem that would have stopped a reasonable customer from buying the item if they had known about it”

The legislation is clear and simple.

OP has to return the goods to be assessed in a reasonable time as it is reasonable that they should do so. The merchant should cover any associated costs to do with this.

Personally I would begin by calling the merchant and say to them I am rejecting the laptop and choosing to take a refund as I am entitled to do under the CGA. I will return the laptop to you and give you three working days after receipt to assess the laptop then I expect a refund.

If they push back I would then start asking for their details to file with the disputes tribunal. They’ll fold at that point.

The retailers issues with ASUS are the retailers to deal with, they can’t shove it down the chain.

weasel13

38 posts

Geek

#3125472 9-Sep-2023 22:06

Handle9:
weasel13: I don't think you will have much luck rejecting it under the CGA yet. It would very considered reasonable for them to attempt to fix it a second time. If they can't fix the fault this time around then you would have stronger grounds for rejecting the laptop and seeking a refund.
In case you're not aware, the retailer can't make you pay shipping costs for returning it for repair.

You are incorrect that they have the right to fix it a second time. OP has the right to reject the goods as they have a failure of substantial character “ a problem that would have stopped a reasonable customer from buying the item if they had known about it”

The legislation is clear and simple.

OP has to return the goods to be assessed in a reasonable time as it is reasonable that they should do so. The merchant should cover any associated costs to do with this.

Personally I would begin by calling the merchant and say to them I am rejecting the laptop and choosing to take a refund as I am entitled to do under the CGA. I will return the laptop to you and give you three working days after receipt to assess the laptop then I expect a refund.

If they push back I would then start asking for their details to file with the disputes tribunal. They’ll fold at that point.

The retailers issues with ASUS are the retailers to deal with, they can’t shove it down the chain.

You are correct about the retailers issues with ASUS being separate but I disagree that it's a substantial fault that entitles you to immediately reject it.

If the fault was present on day 1 and was returned immediately then yes, but seeking a refund after one year means they are unlikely to succeed.

The CGA is quite clear that the retailer is entitled to repair faults (up to a certain point) and twice is considered reasonable

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3125473 9-Sep-2023 22:07

Thanks for the responses. They are a good retailer and have built many PC's for me over the last 20 years, however a laptop is a product in a box like a television and should be refunded by now. I probably will send it back on Monday again, just a bit concerned about what they are going to do with it this time....

Handle9

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#3125476 9-Sep-2023 22:12

weasel13: The CGA is quite clear that the retailer is entitled to repair faults (up to a certain point) and twice is considered reasonable

Nope. There is nothing in the act that says the retailer is entitled to fix a failure if substantial character. That immediately falls into the right to reject the goods. It’s worth noting a failure if substantial character doesn’t mean the whole product doesn’t work, in this case the passage I quoted is relevant.

There is also nothing in the act that says a retailer has two chances to repair if the failure is not of substantial character. It says that it must be remedied in a reasonable and period of time but not that they can repair twice.

OP has been reasonable so far and is now entitled to a refund.

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CYaBro

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#3125485 9-Sep-2023 22:33

Who says it’s a failure if substantial character?
It could just be a driver issue.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Handle9

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#3125486 9-Sep-2023 22:38

CYaBro: Who says it’s a failure if substantial character?
It could just be a driver issue.

Read what was posted. It’s a failure that the retailer has been unable to fix and op would not have bought the laptop if they had known about it.

Ruphus

465 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3125570 10-Sep-2023 11:09

It's not a substantial failure. If the ethernet adapter was not working at all then it would be a substantial issue.

From the OP, the issue is only appearing when the device is waking from sleep. The sleep state could be disabled while working through the problem with the retailer to remedy the issue.

Zorg2000

73 posts

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#3125631 10-Sep-2023 13:40

Definitely entitled to a refund. The goods are not of ‘acceptable quality’ or ‘fit for purpose’ and you have been reasonable giving them a chance to fix the laptop the first time around. You just have to tell them in writing that you want a refund and why.

Handle9

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#3125647 10-Sep-2023 16:22

Ruphus: It's not a substantial failure. If the ethernet adapter was not working at all then it would be a substantial issue.

From the OP, the issue is only appearing when the device is waking from sleep. The sleep state could be disabled while working through the problem with the retailer to remedy the issue.

Is this “a problem that would have stopped a reasonable customer from buying the item if they had known about it?” It seems clear that it is.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3125696 10-Sep-2023 22:09

I think I am entitled to a refund but I believe it is a driver issue ASUS related. Retailer tested it for a week or so before passing onto ASUS, not sure why.

I have sent then articles on similar issues but they seem to think they know best.

Not really much else to replace as mother board contains most items.

I will send it away again and see what happens.

Thanks for all your responses.

SpartanVXL

1306 posts

Uber Geek

#3125908 11-Sep-2023 11:25

The problem with multi function devices like a personal computer is that It can be used multiple ways with multiple different functions/feature’s available. Trying to enforce CGA for a flawless product is very difficult unless something is very obviously broken, hence my initial comment on likely needing to take it to disputes.

In this case it could be a multitude of things wrong, not limited to:

- Fault in network adapter hardware, either Intel/Realtek etc.
- Fault in motherboard BIOS firmware, Asus
- Fault in wake from sleep driver load, Microsoft (windows)
- Fault in OS driver functionality, Intel/Realtek.

Disputes also could go either way, it is functional as long as sleep state is not engaged. It is possible you could also reset the network device in OS so you don’t have to reboot every time. You would have to make a very compelling argument as to why it isn’t satisfactory given the laundry list of more critical things a laptop has e.g. does it turn on, does screen work etc.

I know it’s not what anyone would like to hear, but stuff like this is complicated and not done well under CGA (practically speaking, I’m sure someone will say how this should be covered etc.). The retailer will likely want to try resolve it since if you file against them and Asus do not play ball they will be the ones footing the bill unless they chase them up.

timmmay

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#3125991 11-Sep-2023 13:31

Ethernet not working after waking from sleep would be annoying, but it's not particularly substantial IMHO. It sounds like a driver issue. Try a USB ethernet adapter if you have one, I have a couple that came with USB hubs that weren't expensive.

I've had some computers that didn't work well after waking from sleep, though they were self built. I just turned them off rather than using sleep.

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