Employment expectation query

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Auxano

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#247801 23-Feb-2019 21:55

Current job is being restructured. I have the option of jobs but only a week to choose which one. I have no documentation on either job but know a rough job description and hours. Am I supposed to get a contract to read before deciding on what job to take or am I supposed to decide on job then expect the contract to look through?

Thanks.

freitasm

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#2186112 24-Feb-2019 01:03

You should be given a full job description for each of those and be able to read up the contract. There should be no expectation of accepting a contract without reading it.

Dratsab

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#2186118 24-Feb-2019 05:21

What freitasm says plus a week seems like massively short time to make a decision on such a fundamental change to your employment. I'd recommend seeking proper advice - which could be from your union if you belong to one, or an employment lawyer if you don't.

BlinkyBill

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#2186139 24-Feb-2019 07:18

if your role has been disestablished then a week is fine because you have the time to spend on it. If you have not been disestablished, then a week is too short, and that’s what your consultation feedback should be.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2186146 24-Feb-2019 08:10

Auxano:

Current job is being restructured. I have the option of jobs but only a week to choose which one.

If the roles are significantly different, you also have the option of taking none.

On that note, changes in redundancy clauses should be given particular attention when signing new contracts.

Auxano

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#2186161 24-Feb-2019 09:27

Basically I'm sole charge of office, now hired young girl 2 days a week.

I've asked to drop to 4 days a week.

Boss is looking ahead and knowing job needs a PA next year so has now called me in and said they are restructuring (planning for future growth) so these are the 2 jobs - PA 5 days (more hours than I do) or 3 days (lot less hours than I do)

The long and short of it is I don't want to do more hours but boss wants me to be PA. I said no to this at start of year. Just want to continue. Now this out of the blue after asking to drop to 4 days. Wondered if I was being squeezed out so asked the question. Answer is no, I want you for PA.

Feels like I'm being forced into more hours as boss knows I can't afford way less hours. I don't want another job, I love this job. Annoyed that I'm now pretty much forced into more work and be the PA.

So I was told I have a week to tell her. But I'd like to see paperwork but I'm wondering if paperwork comes after i've committed my 'yes' to boss.

More than likely will be added add-ons "I'd like a 3 year comittment" etc, so would like to know how I go about doing this.

Don't want to cause any trouble!!!!

BlinkyBill

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#2186214 24-Feb-2019 10:30

You asked to reduce your hours, to four (presumably from 5) days per week. Your boss sees workload increasing. It is reasonable for employers to review the workforce against need and restructure roles against workload.

I don’t see what the problem is - you are the employee and the employer is allowed to fit the roles against her requirements, it is not up to the employer to accomodate your lifestyle choices. If working together you can’t work it out, the employer needs to find a new employee and you a new job - that’s inconvenient for each of you, but if the new requirements don’t fit then they don’t fit.

If you say ‘no’ then you will become redundant and the redundancy provisions of your existing contract kick in. Or you could accept the new role parameters until you find a job you prefer, then resign.

To be honest, and i’m not trying to be rude, but it seems like you expect the employer to shape the job to what you want, and without regard to what they want to do going forward. But where does the money to pay you come from?

gzt

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#2186276 24-Feb-2019 13:31

You're being a bit hard there Blinkybill and missing the opportunities to negotiate where both parties win.

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Auxano

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#2186296 24-Feb-2019 14:07

I hear what you are saying.

I have been under the illusion that my contract was going to be re-done (new boss) and we have been talking on and off about what it could look like and boss has asked for my input. I have had a lot of verbal agreement from her regarding my suggestions. So, the sit down chat and announcement that my job would be restructured was a complete shock. My job won't change that much, apart from become more PA than it is now. It is clear to me that this is the boss's way of forcing me into a full time PA role - one that she knows I have not been keen for, as I don't want to increase my hours I currently work.

My issue: how can I say which job I want without seeing the contract? or...does the contract come after I've said "yes" to one of the jobs?

I then worry that there will be verbals along the lines of "if you take this job I expect a 3 year commitment from you" - I've heard it talked about before. This won't be in the contract but will be something i would have to verbally agree to.

Nothing has been said to me about redundancy. If I don't want either job is it a given there will be redundancy? If so, why wouldn't this have been talked about?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my job and area of work. I don't want to leave!

BlinkyBill

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#2186362 24-Feb-2019 14:44

How many hours do you work now, how many do you want to work, and how many does each of the two new jobs entail?

Also, do you have an employment contract now? If so, is it clear as to your working hours?

Verbal conditions or agreements mean nothing; if it’s not written down, there is no standing. The best thing here is to discuss the situation with your boss, and agree in writing the salient points - i.e. you take notes as to what is agreed verbally, type them up and send them to her and get her to make sure the agreement goes into your employment agreement.

jonathan18

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#2186363 24-Feb-2019 14:46

Hey there,

I hope you’ve also been looking at the advice and guidance provided by the relevant government departments? While forums like this can be helpful, you’ll often get partial or even slanted advice (including mine, with me clearly coming from a different perspective than some of the other posts!).

Start with employment.govt.nz, which has pages like https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/employer-and-employee-must-dos/

I’ve never worked for a small employer, but whatever the role or whatever employer I’d be expecting a position or job description, as the very first reply noted. This will (or should!) give you a clear description of what the job entails. You should also have access to a copy of the employment agreement that you are expected to sign if you do end up accepting the job, as this will contain critical components such as salary reviews and redundancy provisions.

An employer that can’t provide at least this, and provide an adequate timeframe to make important decisions such as whether to accept a new position is, in my opinion, doing a piss-poor job. This behaviour is also more likely in small businesses where employers are often ignorant (or claim ignorance) of employment law, employees often have limited knowledge or don’t have the confidence, and unions have little or no involvement.

I would carefully read all relevant information on the site I provided above, as it’s worth checking that your employer is actually following the law let alone those ‘softer’ requirements such as operating in good faith. If the restructuring process hasn’t been done properly then they’ll be on thin ice.

You can also contact MBIE for general information; see https://www.employment.govt.nz/about/contact-us/

You could also look at joining a union, who can provide you with advice or, of course, an employment lawyer or employment advocate.

But, personally, at a minimum I’d not be agreeing to anything until I have read and understood my PD and new agreement...

Dial111

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#2186372 24-Feb-2019 15:24

No it’s not normal to agree to a job before seeing a contract, how are you meant to agree to something which you do not know what it entails. Ask to see both contracts.

gzt

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#2186421 24-Feb-2019 17:21

Auxano: The long and short of it is I don't want to do more hours but boss wants me to be PA. I said no to this at start of year. Just want to continue. Now this out of the blue after asking to drop to 4 days. Wondered if I was being squeezed out so asked the question. Answer is no, I want you for PA.

I'm getting the impression it's a branch office of some kind. Your boss might not be fully driving the changes. Either way there could be some local wiggle room. Combining 20 days leave with some unpaid leave if your boss is willing you can get close to 4 days a week. That's not much use if you have fixed commitments for your fifth day and might entail some flexibility on both sides. It's relatively common to work from home half a day or a day a week if it fits the role. There is obviously some goodwill there and that may lead to flexibility.

Handle9

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#2186451 24-Feb-2019 18:33

This is a really difficult process at the best of times for everyone involved. It can get very emotional, which really doesn't help anyone as it can become confrontational rather than working on sorting out the topic to the best mutual result.

Have you been formally notified that your role has been disestablished? This should have been done in writing.

Personally I would do the following. Firstly I'd request, in writing, the job descriptions and conditions (ie contract) for both roles. If you don't have everything in writing then it is all just hearsay. Once you the options in writing then you can make decisions around what works best for you and negotiate the best possible outcome for you.

Verbal three year commitments etc are just your manager manipulating you using guilt. It's a different circumstance if you have applied for a role but if your role is being disestablished and you aren't offered something that works for you IMO you are behaving in an ethical way to take the role that pays your bills while searching for another role. This isn't a marriage - as Blinky Bill said you can't expect a business to adapt it's needs to suit you but it is also not fair for them to expect you to stay in a role if you are not happy.

You can always use the "I thought it would be ok but it isn't working out the way I expected" excuse if you resign.

The best advice I can give is try and stay unemotional while you are having discussions with your manager and take copious notes. It's best to get them to agree with what you have written but diary notes are admissible, especially if they are consistent (taken after every meet, showing discussions that are both in your favour and not etc) and taken regularly. Coupled with emails etc they can show a pattern which could be used in court if things get nasty,

You are also entitled to have a support person present when you are having employment discussions like this, which can be very helpful if you find these types of topics challenging to talk about. Good luck, this isn't easy (for the company either), I hope it comes to a good outcome.

MileHighKiwi

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#2186468 24-Feb-2019 19:35

There's no such thing as a 3 year, or any year, commitment. Your boss might like to think they can say that, but they can't. I doubt you could even legally put that in a contract.

I've worked for two small companies and both times they had no clue when it came to HR processes and obligations. Not sure if that's tour situation but the manager sounds a bit amateur.

I've also not applied for jobs when they have not been able to provide a job description, always a red flag imo.

gzt

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#2186500 24-Feb-2019 21:08

It's well worth engaging a competent employment lawyer to gain some certainty about your situation and know the ground you are standing on. This discussion is good but only legal advice can give you that certainty.