Question on recruitment agencies and other employment matters

Forums › Jobs › Question on recruitment agencies and other employment matters

rayonline

1734 posts

Uber Geek

#195673 29-Apr-2016 11:33

This isn't related to IT but I see a few non-IT related threads here. I debated about putting it here or at the "off topic" area but feel free to move this.

Re: agencies. As I have gotten other work I've always let the the few agencies that I work with what is happening with me. I got this role, at this place, doing this, this is when the contract ends and I have kept in contact with them maybe 2 months before the end to let them know I will be soon needing their services, when I am between work I have kept in contact with them every 2 weeks. When I look back while they do keep in contact with you via email in maybe 2yrs they may have only referred me to 2 interviews. Does this sound normal?

For those who have been employers or sat on the interviewing panel. What do you think about being honest in an interview or those that say rehearse interview questions and answer them that way. I'm pretty straight forward, I don't want to take a job and set too high of an expectation that I may not be able to fulfill. I'm looking for a good fit, I'm not looking for the best pay or career progression every 3yrs. When one looks at your CV they more or less know what you have done and how your career have changed or developed over the years. When an agency has sent me to an interview, at times it felt like my CV clearly shows this even if it was something I did in the past or something I guess I could do with transferable skills but it contradicts what my CV has been moving towards.

Appreciate your views.

Inphinity

2780 posts

Uber Geek

#1543958 29-Apr-2016 11:41

Your first question, about them referring you to only a few interviews, it depends - in my experience, though it's been a while, if they are aware you're actively looking I would expect a few interviews per week not per year. If you are in a role and have simply said you may be interested in 'something really good' or similar, then a few per year may be about right.

As for those conducting the interviews, it's a balance. If you come across too rehearsed, I will assume you've been told what to say and aren't capable of dynamic thought and you will not be a viable candidate. On the other end of the scale, if you've not thought about it at all and end up blubbering out some irrelevant, nonsensical babble, I will assume you rely too much on structure and process and collapse when expected to think for yourself. You really do need to strike a good balance between the two - prepare some base concepts, but don't recite it word for word, think about how to respond to the specific variations of question being asked, and think about which aspects of your potential response are most relevant for the role/employer you're interviewing with.

marpada

476 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1543986 29-Apr-2016 12:32

When I interview candidates I appreciate the honesty, but can't stand guys who haven't done due diligence about the position and the company. Obviously if you are asked silly questions like 'Where do you see yourself in 5 years' or 'what's your biggest weakness' it's hard to avoid canned answers. Honesty works both ways, not only employers don't want hire candidates that stretches the truth about their skills and experience, also the employer should describe the position and company culture accurately and not sugar coat it so you are not lured to a position that turns to be quite different than the offered one.

MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#1543997 29-Apr-2016 12:50

As an interviewer, I find pre-rehearsed 'lines' are cheesy and off putting.

A person that has thought about what questions might be asked and examples to answer those questions and then gives an unrehearsed response is likely to impress.

So in summary candour/honesty that shows forethought.

As an interviewee I like to make a 1 page table of the attributes and experience listed in the job description and populate that table with examples that demonstrate I have the required experience, attributes.

I take it into the interview and glance at it to prompt me if I need to.

Mike

rayonline

1734 posts

Uber Geek

#1543998 29-Apr-2016 12:51

marpada:

When I interview candidates I appreciate the honesty, but can't stand guys who haven't done due diligence about the position and the company. Obviously if you are asked silly questions like 'Where do you see yourself in 5 years' or 'what's your biggest weakness' it's hard to avoid canned answers. Honesty works both ways, not only employers don't want hire candidates that stretches the truth about their skills and experience, also the employer should describe the position and company culture accurately and not sugar coat it so you are not lured to a position that turns to be quite different than the offered one.

I can relate to those questions quite naturally. In 5yrs doing the same stuff but skilling up. Weakness to me honestly is public speaking.

These days I apply to few roles for a proper fit. To me it is like lying, you get a job no matter what to bend your answers and if you get it, you do that while one may not be passionate about it and after that you do something else.

Question: if a role is just 3 or 6 months is it ok for the employer to want someone who is passionate about this line of work. It might be something a person can do and at times I have been called to an interview and yes I have done but it was some years ago. Anyone can look at the CV and see that. One can also see how it has changed over the years.

MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#1544005 29-Apr-2016 13:09

When I'm employing people I don't really care if they are passionate about their job.

I just want people who do their job well, and get along with others.

Mike

timmmay

20587 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1544008 29-Apr-2016 13:17

I don't really understand the question, second paragraph is fairly confusing. Is it normal for a recruitment company to only refer you to two interviews? Sure, if they only had two suitable jobs. In an interview I'm looking for someone who has experience, understands and fully answer the questions. I don't much care if they've done a lot of research on the role, because it's just a job. "Why do you want this role?" can be answered "I need a job and you have the kind of work I enjoy" is fine for me. If you want to say something about mission, culture, etc, sure, but it's probably an ass kissing answer anyway.

People will hire someone who they like who they think can do the job over someone they don't like who can definitely do the job.

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1549163 10-May-2016 11:52

rayonline:

..... When one looks at your CV they more or less know what you have done and how your career have changed or developed over the years. .....

Perhaps if you update your agency every year when jumping between roles - and providing they are your mates, then they might be the only ones who would know.

Anywhere in the world it is not about what is in your CV, it is about who you know.

What is important is the ability of a person who is screening your CV or interviewing you - is to analyse whether you are capable to deliver on the tasks that vacant role expects from you, whether you will fit into the team and will not present the risk to the business or to the hiring manager’s career.

Talking from over 35 years in corporate environment - both in NZ, in Moscow and working with different International Companies.

Employment agencies, HR people around the world and in NZ are clueless and possess little or no skills in identifying the right candidate for the high-tech role where high level of IQ, very specific skills [e.g. analytical] are required. Or put it simple - when they need a GEEK!

Some were trained in behavioural interviews. Some may have natural people skills and can tell that the person is a liar. I've seen people lying a lot...

I would compare many HR people and Recruitment Agencies to the Real Estate agents who know absolutely nothing about the property but think they deserve their “cut” as it was them who “put it on the market”.

Many Recruitment Agencies do not understand what you can really do and what the role is all about.

HR people have never been performing any of those roles they are “hiring for”, they do not hold relevant qualifications specific to the role. How would they know that you are a right candidate? They are only looking for the key words in your CV and if not found in 5 seconds - you are not getting the interview.

I've been hiring myself for my teams in Telco/HighTech business and found HR being absolutely useless.

I've been applying for the number of management roles myself and I can clearly see-through those HR people. I observe them playing "equal opportunity game" when the candidate had already been nominated but they need to invite few extra people from outside to put on paper that there was “a fair process of choosing among many candidates”.

I am not talking here by the way about low pay roles where they are looking for anyone from outside to work “non-stop until you drop” by doing what I call “data entry jobs” which not many highly experienced people are willing to accept unless they are desperate … In that case the ball is on the candidate's side...What they pay is what you get....You do not have to try hard to get into one of those...

“Reference bonus” is in place in many high-tech companies in New Zealand. It would be naïve to assume that a complete stranger will get the job when you can reference your mate and get the bonus.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

rayonline

1734 posts

Uber Geek

#1549282 10-May-2016 13:27

RUKI:

rayonline:

..... When one looks at your CV they more or less know what you have done and how your career have changed or developed over the years. .....

Perhaps if you update your agency every year when jumping between roles - and providing they are your mates, then they might be the only ones who would know.

Yes, I have. Have met with them each 3 months for coffee including when I have been working that was not obtained thru them. I am working with one agency also that they put me on a PAYE contract (fixed term) last time but I have told the market is very quiet and strange at the moment.

olivernz

498 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1549339 10-May-2016 15:31

Recruiters are like a box of chocholates. I have gotten used to form bonds with people in the recruiting business that I like. That seems to work better. Also I've built up a portfolio of customers to shoulder tap when needed.

As for interviews... always remember you're interviewing them just as much as they you. So ASK QUESTIONS! Lots of them and specific to what they do or exploratory so you can ascertain where they are at and whether you fit. Get them to talk. Everybody likes talking about themselves. So even if they do the most talking and you attentively listen then you will be seen as a good candidate.

Treat pre canned questions with the same disdain as they treat pre canned answers.i.e take them and mould them to whatever suits you. So if they want you to talk about your weakness, then say one of your weaknesses was X and Y is how you got rid of it and embellish on that. i.e. you have no weakness anymore. (by the way as an interviewer I'd be impressed by how you get out of the question! And when I interview I ask some questions not because i want an answer but because I want to see how you answer. Are you impulsive or do you have the guts to pause and think, are you prepared to say "I don't know" or will you waffle,...)

Best is if they haven't even looked at your CV. Honestly, that makes me want to leave the room immediately and if this weren't such a small market I would.

On the topic of CVs.... I've seen hundreds of them over the years. ~5% are a catastrophe, ~70% are boiler plate boring, ~20% make me want to interview (although I interview more just because of shortage of people) and 5% want to make me hire immediately. For those "bottom" 75% I just feel sorry. They don't get that the most important career document (above degrees and whatnot!) is your CV!!!! No errors! No spelling mistakes! It needs to be you on the very best day! But no blatant lies. It is a sales pamphlet. If I don't get excited about it don't expect to come for an interview. It doesn't need to state that you are an olympic athlete or something like that but it needs to show there's an independant and interesting person here that has a brain.

My CV has been updated at least yearly over the last 15y and I do spend hours if not days on getting it just right. I get people to review it (sometimes even pay for specialists). And I can say it is also recievend accordingly. So it does really pay off. Oh and CVs should be PDF and not Word documents! One of my biggest beefs with recruiters. I will NOT give them a word document. My CV is pixel by pixel the way I want to present myself. No other grubby hands are allowed in there. They can gladly add pages around it with whatever they like and if they have a change they want made they can ask me but that's it. If that is an issue then I will not do buisiness with them because word docs are just unprofessional (by the way, I can tell a lot about you just by the way you write a word document. The features you use or don't show how proficient you are and believe me when I say 99.9% of peopel (including me) use Word incorrectly)

Now that wasn't such a bad rant now was it ;-)

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#1551468 12-May-2016 13:31

olivernz:

.....

On the topic of CVs.... I've seen hundreds of them over the years. ~5% are a catastrophe, ~70% are boiler plate boring, ~20% make me want to interview (although I interview more just because of shortage of people) and 5% want to make me hire immediately. ..

SPARK had introduced interesting feature - an applicant has to submit CV and leave a message of why they think they are the best for the role.

That could eliminate those from outside New Zealand, who are bombarding carrer sites with their CVs without even having work visa.

That also gives hiring manager an opportunity to listen to the person's voice.

Some roles (e.g. Call Centre, Sales) require very good voice which could be more beneficial than having MS Excel skills :-) You can learn Excel but you can't obtain that great voice if you don't have one aready!