Do recruiters make job search more frustrating?

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oakland

19 posts

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#224046 30-Oct-2017 16:57

Of the hundreds of job I have applied for online over past few years I never had a luck with a recruiter. I only had one interview arranged by a recruiter. The rest were all from employer advertised jobs and I have been offered multiple jobs in the past by employers and I have worked for one of them.

Now I am back to job search and facing the same situation. I have scored some interviews recently through employer advertised jobs but never get a response from any recruiter. Its like sending job applications into a black hole when it comes to recruiters and unfortunately most jobs are advertised by recruiters.

What works with recruiters?

gbwelly

1243 posts

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#1892762 30-Oct-2017 17:13

I've used recruiters 3 times, one amounted to a few proposed interviews for positions I didn't want, one got me an interview and job offer, which I declined because it was a slave ship, and another got me a job which I hated. So I'd use one to get a role to pay the bills if I was in a jam, but I prefer waiting for a position to be offered to me by one of my acquaintances. Assuming you work in IT, you will have noticed that they are unavoidable if you are looking for work and can't get a role through word of mouth.

My advice would be to let them know exactly what you want, and stick to it. Most are motivated to fill positions, only the smaller niche recruiters work on building a reputation for quality and long term placements.

I'm surprised you are not hearing back from recruiters, it sounds like your CV is working with employers. Perhaps you need to include a sheet with specific technology skills, as recruiters will often just match technologies from listings against those in the CV. Which is understandable as they are not IT workers.

marpada

476 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1892763 30-Oct-2017 17:15

They're a necessary evil as some companies can't be bothered advertising the position and screening the candidates themselves.

To get attention form the recruiter you just need to add the right buzzwords to your resume.

hio77

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#1892775 30-Oct-2017 17:49

Recruiters are a pain, but seem to be a required part.

my last application through a recruiter.... i got through all the way, enjoying the role for months then get asked by previous employer if i was moving roles again?

Turns out the recruiter didn't do their Homework until far later down the track when ticking all the boxes, so made the calls just to verify me months later!

Overall, there are some pretty sh!tty ones out there, and some decent..

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

stevenk

26 posts

Geek

#1892788 30-Oct-2017 18:27

marpada:

They're a necessary evil as some companies can't be bothered advertising the position and screening the candidates themselves.

To get attention form the recruiter you just need to add the right buzzwords to your resume.

That's absolutely true.

I can honestly say that I've never, ever had a good placement through an agency. I've either ended up working for truly appalling companies, or have ended up in a job where my skills are entirely different to what the company actually requires - especially where some common job titles can be interpreted to fit entirely different roles, with entirely different skill sets required.

As an employer, when I've been forced by company policy to use an agency, the candidates I've been supplied that the agency thinks are a perfect fit, have more often than not been fundamentally unsuitable for the role, often because of subtle requirements of the role that have been hard to get across to an employment agent. I don't mind going through dozens of CV's going no, no, no, maybe, did this person read the ad, no, no, because I can make the choice about whether someone may fit the role in a different way to what I'd originally considered.

JaseNZ

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#1892793 30-Oct-2017 18:58

I advertise myself always have always will. I get pis*ed when I advertise and then I get bombarded by recruiting agencies wanting to solicit their services.

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driller2000

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#1892803 30-Oct-2017 19:42

It depends....

If you didn't know the market, companies, contacts etc - then they could be useful - assuming you find a good one.

I used one once early in my career and they were useful enough - incl tips re interviews, company info, market worth, CV etc

But since then all subsequent moves have been via contacts and under my own steam.

I have also been involved in recruitment as an employer and prefer not to use them as their fees can be considerable - and again prefer known contacts, referrals etc as being a more reliable way to connect with suitable candidates.

So, yeah a good one, in the right circumstance - sure. Otherwise not so much - especially if you know your market already.

dejadeadnz

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#1892820 30-Oct-2017 20:29

If you find the right recruiter, he/she can be helpful to both the candidate and the hiring company. Many are, however, just terrible people focusing on making the next buck or making company KPIs. That said, the startling lack of effort made by many hiring managers in terms of properly profiling a role and writing a JD means that any recruiter, especially an external one, is immediately hamstrung. Just look at how most NZ JDs typically over-glamourises every role; how everybody is supposed to work on projects and/or lead them; and how so many corporate jobs have miraculous exposure to senior management or even the execs.

I had the fortune of learning from someone who's now an exec at a listed company and is, by all accounts, poised to probably be the next female CEO of a major listed company. Her style was to always require her team members (at a minimum people at the same level of the role being recruited; often times even levels above and below) to get actively involved in drafting the JDs and ads, which are reviewed every time the vacancy arises. The result (and I have shamelessly copied this style and seen the benefits) = much more truthful and operationally-relevant JDs/collaterals that properly focus on the more important aspects of the job. That in turn attracts far fewer than average applications but much higher quality applicants.

I've managed across three different corporates (built up from scratch two teams and took over almost in toto a highly functioning one) and with this method have secured very high quality hires that have extremely long tenure. My first two roles are currently occupied by people that I hired externally who were promoted into my role; two have followed me as I have moved on -- in one case twice. It takes a bit of mongrel to battle more old-fashioned internal recruitment/HR people who don't like hiring managers taking over their perceived jobs or showing them up but with a supportive GM or even an exec, it's never difficult to throw them out of the way. It also requires one to let go of the "I know best!" mentality but I've always found my team and my time investment to be more than worth it. Speaking more as a hiring manager, I don't really buy into the idea that there are any "sure fire" ways of getting good people -- just because someone fits in terrifically in my team, it doesn't necessarily mean that he/she knows someone that will also. I've always taken a "spread the net wide" mentality and advertised externally and then just review applications manually with members of my team to shortlist and interview.

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ANglEAUT

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#1892857 30-Oct-2017 22:59

dejadeadnz:

I had the fortune of learning from someone .... Her style was to always require her team members (at a minimum people at the same level of the role being recruited; often times even levels above and below) to get actively involved in drafting the JDs and ads, which are reviewed every time the vacancy arises. The result (and I have shamelessly copied this style and seen the benefits) = much more truthful and operationally-relevant JDs/collaterals that properly focus on the more important aspects of the job. That in turn attracts far fewer than average applications but much higher quality applicants.

Where do you work & how can I join your team? Those are the principles that I hear from www.manager-tools.com and I like them. They are very truthful.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

SirHumphreyAppleby

2847 posts

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#1892888 31-Oct-2017 07:11

I have had similar experiences to yourself, with a high percentage of applications to employers resulting in interviews, and a poor response from recruiters. Most can't even be bothered sending automated messages informing you of progress, which is poor considering I've been contacted to interview for roles I applied for more than a month prior. It's difficult to know when to throw away the details.

One thing I have learned about recruiters is that if the job says "X years in a similar role", don't bother applying unless you have the same job title. It's a sure sign the recruiter doesn't know the first thing about the role, and is just trying to shift people in to a position with the same job title. If you're in development, where 'Agile' is the current in-thing, and where titles and function don't align well (some companies even invent new titles because they don't like the typical ones), if the recruiter can't relate your experience to the position, you're unlikely to get an interview.

Related to the above, recruiters often write up roles poorly. I've lost count of the number of times I've applied for lead roles with a focus on technical skills in the listing, only to be told they are looking for someone with a purely management background.

My tip for getting interviews with recruiters, or at least getting them on the phone - skip the cover letter. I've been told by several recruiters they don't read them. The CV needs to contain a clear and easily read outline of your work (preferably achievements) as they will quickly scan that. For the cover letter, I typically just include a note requesting I be contacted regarding the specific requirements of the role. Surprisingly, that seems to work, and while it may not help you get the role you applied for, it does mean they talk to you about the details of the role and what you're looking for, and may mean they consider you for other roles.

Good luck!

Lias

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#1893019 31-Oct-2017 11:08

I got what I consider my best ever job through having my CV on file at a recruiter, so they are not all bad, but the ones who never reply can die in a fire.

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muppet

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#1893066 31-Oct-2017 12:17

Recruiters don't work for you, they work for the companies trying to hire people. Sure, they pretend to, but only in as much as an estate agent selling a house pretends they're interested in helping you find a home. They're working for the seller, not the buyer.

If they're not forwarding your CV through to the companies, ask them what's missing from your CV that's meaning you're not getting considered to be put in front of their client(s). Usually if you have something on your CV that a recruiter feels will get them a sale (i.e. you employed with a company) they'll shop you around hard to companies they know, so if this isn't happening for you find out what your CV needs to make it appealing and try to update it to reflect it. (I'm not saying lie on your CV, only to shorten sections which aren't that relevant and put more detail in around areas that are.)

If they're not replying to you at all, get on the phone to them, or keep following up via email etc until they do reply to you. Sadly you often have to keep at them if you want them to spend any actual time considering you for the positions they're charged with filling. Squeaky wheel, oil etc.

It's frustrating, but persevere. Mostly they will all do the bare minimum required to get candidates in front a company, so you've really got to push them as hard as you can to get them to do a little bit of work for you.

Good luck.

gehenna

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#1893090 31-Oct-2017 12:27

muppet:

Recruiters don't work for you, they work for the companies trying to hire people.

That's not entirely accurate. It depends on the relationship you have with the recruiter, and how marketable your skills are. If your candidacy is in high demand, it's possible for a recruiter to shop you around and work mainly on your behalf, because the better deal they can get for you, the better their commission. The body-shop type recruiters that are heavier on the company side of things are ones to steer clear of, as they will just be working to a numbers game and wanting to make sure they get repeat business out of the company they're recruiting for. Granted depending on where you are in your career you may not have a choice, but ideally you'd build a relationship with a few recruiters that you have had good experiences with and can trust, and then work with them over a number of years each time you are looking to move around. That way they're much more likely to work on your behalf, and will help you to hone your skills and career path as a result.

muppet

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#1893116 31-Oct-2017 13:16

gehenna:

muppet:

Recruiters don't work for you, they work for the companies trying to hire people.

That's not entirely accurate.

Until the job candidate is the person giving the recruiter money for a successful placement, I disagree :-)

gehenna

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#1893143 31-Oct-2017 14:10

You've missed the point. A recruiter can only get their commission for a placement if they have a candidate to place. It's a 2 way street. I don't doubt there are some morally ambiguous recruiters out there, but as I said those tend to be body shops that anyone who has dealt with tends to steer clear of the 2nd time around.

pctek

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#1899342 11-Nov-2017 18:44

I've had both good and bad. The bad are really bad.

One, asked for a photo. I declined. They said, oh but we won't know which is you, I said, sure you will, I'll be the one without a photo.

Got a job through them too, a good one.