Swollen iPhone battery and the Consumer Guarantees Act

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redskt

42 posts

Geek

#212761 11-Apr-2017 16:38

My 30-month old iPhone 6 Plus battery is swollen and the left side of the display is starting to separate from the phone. I called Apple Support asking for a CGA repair, informing support of how dangerous swollen Li-Ion batteries are. Their senior advisor is adamant the swollen batteries - and batteries in general - are not covered under the CGA.

The senior advisor went on to claim that the CGA has a hard time limit of 24 months. I informed the advisor that Apple 's own environmental report assumes that iPhones last three years without major faults like a swollen battery. The advisor suggested I should talk to Apple's legal team directly and provided me with the wrong feedback link.

Eventually the advisor agreed to remedy the battery issue for free, but then claimed that Apple is being generous and that I would definitely have to pay the support fee if the same issue crops up again, especially if the device is more than 24 months old.

Is Apple handling the issue correctly or are they trying to dodge their responsibilities under the CGA?

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671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1761769 11-Apr-2017 16:42

Aren't they resolving the problem for free so aren't they complying? If they don't fix it a second time, it might be an issue then but that would depend on the facts.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1761773 11-Apr-2017 16:48

SheriffNZ: Aren't they resolving the problem for free so aren't they complying? If they don't fix it a second time, it might be an issue then but that would depend on the facts.

I think they were referring to the fact that they were told that the CGA only covered them for 24 months. When infact there is no time limit on the CGA, as it is based on what a reasonable person would expect such a product to last for. So for someone not that familiar with the CGA, they may have believed them, and not taken it any further. People should be provided with accurate information from companies about this sort of thing. I was told the same thing by apple when I tried to get a 3 year old ipad fixed, as the screen had developed light spots under the screen, which was apparently a known manufacturing defect with my model. They told me the CGA was for 24 months. I had to correct them, which is annoying, because they must know.

sbiddle

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#1761774 11-Apr-2017 16:51

FWIW 24 months is deemed an acceptable lifespan of a mobile phone. The Commerce Commission have ruled on this, and warranties have been adjusted by all 3 telcos as a result of this. Trying to argue something longer under the CGA would probably get you nowhere unless you were willing to file a disputes tribunal case and find an adjudicator who's willing to go against existing guidance which is probably unlikely.

xpd

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#1761775 11-Apr-2017 16:51

A battery that is "non-replaceable" built into the device is definitely on the manufacturers head I would think unless theres evidence of a 3rd party being involved - ie: charger, you dropped it etc.

But them offering to fix it once, especially out of warranty and on an "old" device, is pretty decent IMO.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1761776 11-Apr-2017 16:52

sbiddle:

FWIW 24 months is deemed an acceptable lifespan of a mobile phone. The Commerce Commission have spoken - so trying to argue something longer under the CGA would probably get you nowhere unless you were willing to file a disputes tribunal case and find an adjudicator who's willing to go against existing guidance.

Source? It would depend on the amount of use and the price paid under the CGA. eg a $200 mobile should last 2 years, but shouldn't a $1600 phone last longer?

The fact is that the commerce commission don't act on behalf of individuals anyway, so a disputes tribunal ruling of a previous case would be the best guide. Although I am not sure a dispute tribunal ruling can be used as a precedence for the CGA, due to everyones situation being different.

sbiddle

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#1761779 11-Apr-2017 16:56

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

FWIW 24 months is deemed an acceptable lifespan of a mobile phone. The Commerce Commission have spoken - so trying to argue something longer under the CGA would probably get you nowhere unless you were willing to file a disputes tribunal case and find an adjudicator who's willing to go against existing guidance.

Source? It would also depend on the amount of use and the price paid under the CGA. eg a $200 mobile should last 2 years, but shouldn't a $1600 phone last longer?

Little bit about it here. https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/faulty-mobile-phones

Google will no doubt find you lot more about this. My source was a discussion when Spark, VF and 2d moved all warranties to 2 years.

redskt

42 posts

Geek

#1761782 11-Apr-2017 17:05

@xpd @sbiddle Apple's own environmental report for the iPhone suggests that the phone is built well enough to last three years. If the manufacturer is confident in suggesting that the phone lasts that long, shouldn't it be enough of an evidence to make a claim under the CGA on a 30-month old iPhone?

Apple's environmental reports can be found here: http://www.apple.com/environment/reports

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mattwnz

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#1761783 11-Apr-2017 17:06

sbiddle:

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

FWIW 24 months is deemed an acceptable lifespan of a mobile phone. The Commerce Commission have spoken - so trying to argue something longer under the CGA would probably get you nowhere unless you were willing to file a disputes tribunal case and find an adjudicator who's willing to go against existing guidance.

Source? It would also depend on the amount of use and the price paid under the CGA. eg a $200 mobile should last 2 years, but shouldn't a $1600 phone last longer?

Little bit about it here. https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/faulty-mobile-phones

Google will no doubt find you lot more about this. My source was a discussion when Spark, VF and 2d moved all warranties to 2 years.

One of the comments by a consumer on that article, said they had a TDR ruling that required the telco to fix a phone that was 30 months old (2.5 years). So I would think 3 years would be closer than 2 years. Especially as you can buy extended warranties that exceed 2 years anyway, and consumer don't recommend buying extended warranties, as the CGA usually already covers you. Granted, they do have the potential to get bashed around, dropped etc, which do make them more prone to premature failure, than say a TV. Plus they 'date' quickly, so many peopl emay upgrade every 2-3 years anyway. Although apple support iphones for nearly 5 years these days with ios updates, but that allows them to sell older models , cheaper for longer.

scuwp

3885 posts

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#1761809 11-Apr-2017 19:22

Apples own website clearly acknowledges NZ's CGA. I too recall 2 years as being the "time" deemed reasonable use for a mobile phone but honestly can't say where I have formed that knowledge from.

https://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

dejadeadnz

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#1761815 11-Apr-2017 19:45

sbiddle:

Little bit about it here. https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/faulty-mobile-phones

Google will no doubt find you lot more about this. My source was a discussion when Spark, VF and 2d moved all warranties to 2 years.

First you stated that the Commerce Commission have "ruled" on this, yet despite such a ruling being apparently in existence, you're not able to provide it. Moreover, upon a search under the Fair Trading section of the Commerce Commission website, I can locate no such thing. And a closer look at the ComComm publications under that tab would tell one that they generally deal with policy issues, advice, statements of intent etc that are quite broad, rather than specific definitive comments on what complies and what doesn't comply with a legislation.

What's more, on the latter point, as a lawyer who's litigated Fair Trading Act issues and have represented multiple listed companies in dealings with the Commission, I have never, ever heard of the Commission pronouncing or pretending to pronounce definitively (they can't - only the courts can) on what complies or doesn't comply with the Consumer Guarantees Act's definition of acceptable quality. And if you know anything about the CGA, you'd know that it's facts and circumstances dependent. And when one examines what the Commission itself has to say on its own complaints jurisdiction, one suspects that you either didn't understand what you were hearing or you are, just like far too many people speaking beyond their actual areas of expertise, just believing what you want to believe:

Some of the reports we receive are about concerns outside the scope of our responsibilities, such as faulty goods and services, retail prices and advertising standards

Oh and for a laugh, our Head of Regulatory Affairs sits one pod away from me. When I told him that someone on the internet claimed that the Commission issued guidelines stating that a two year warranty for mobile phones is adequate under the CGA, he laughed. Hard.

StevenWg

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#1762376 12-Apr-2017 18:25

As I know, if the battery is swollen and phone is out of 2 years, Apple gives service that paying the battery price to get a replacement device. My friend got the service like this recently.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1762377 12-Apr-2017 18:35

StevenWg: As I know, if the battery is swollen and phone is out of 2 years, Apple gives service that paying the battery price to get a replacement device. My friend got the service like this recently.

It is one of the big problems with sealing a battery (which is normally a consumable) inside a high end product. Sealing it in essentially makes the battery a non consumable. Battery bulge seems to be fairly common after a while. I have several old nokias which I have noticed that battery has developed a bulge in. At least with those you can just swap out the battery easily.

CYaBro

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#1763380 12-Apr-2017 19:47

One of the symptoms of a lithium battery is swelling, if it has reached the end of it's life.
How many times have you charged the battery in those 30 months?
It may just be consumed from your usage, and if that is the case then you're lucky that Apple are replacing it at no cost.
Apple can run a diagnostic that will tell them the number of charges that battery has had, and if it is consumed or a failed battery.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

mattwnz

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#1763405 12-Apr-2017 20:38

CYaBro: One of the symptoms of a lithium battery is swelling, if it has reached the end of it's life.
How many times have you charged the battery in those 30 months?
It may just be consumed from your usage, and if that is the case then you're lucky that Apple are replacing it at no cost.
Apple can run a diagnostic that will tell them the number of charges that battery has had, and if it is consumed or a failed battery.

Is that how many times it charges eg each time it is connected rather than the number of full charging cycles? Things do need to be fit for purpose and last a reasonable period of time. So if from normal use a battery is worn out and can't be replaced without an expensive repair, then imo Apple should be coming to the party which sounds like they are doing.

surfisup1000

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#1763474 12-Apr-2017 21:57

If you have the original receipt, I think you should win this case hands down in disputes tribunal.

My phone was 3 years old, with the home button issue and spark refused repairs -- took spark to the TDR and they gave me a replacement phone (despite saying the sparks best lawyers are very certain the CGA only applies for 2 years on iphones).

if you bought through a network provider, take them to the telecoms dispute resolution org.

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