Routing/latency changes with "new" network

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arjoll

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#318773 19-Feb-2025 20:50

Hi all - I don't post here much but haven't seen this particular flavour of "what have 2d done when changing my Snap connection" here so hopefully I'm not doubling up.

I'm a long-term 2d broadband customer - started with Southnet in 1996 - so my home connection was on Snap. The office is as well, but it's from 2020 so hasn't got the same pedigree. I have WatchGuard Fireboxes at each end - an M290 at the office and T70 at home - and run an IKEv2 VPN between them. Latency was around 2ms home to office, 3ms over the VPN, so it was basically like having a LAN between work and home.

Last night I had the "we're changing your connection" email which will mean I've been moved from Snap to Slingshot infrastructure today, and I found that latency on the VPN had gotten significantly worse - 19-20ms to the WAN IP at work and 20-23ms across the VPN. A traceroute shows an increase from 3 hops (local router, 2d router, remote address) to 6 hops - the fifth one being the 2d router that used to be the middle hop. The hops are 5ms, 10ms, 10ms, 18ms, 20ms so I'm guessing my traffic is now bouncing around the South Island instead of just routing via Invercargill.

Can anyone confirm what 2d are doing with routing now? And if local routing is no more, is there anyone from 2d who can explain the rationale? I'd have thought that their customer base would have grown not shrunk since taking over Snap in 2016, so whatever customer numbers justified it then surely still justify it now?

I also have a Voyager connection at work (I'm a wholesale reseller), latency from home to that address is 35ms so a bit more work so still worth keeping 2d (and I'm stuck with the home one because my wife is fond of her southnet.co.nz email address!) but it'd be nice to know what's going on.

FWIW support's suggestion after escalating was "restart your router and ONT" so I'll try that tonight although I am skeptical. At least I've still got the same IP address, I see some weren't as lucky.

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#3344642 19-Feb-2025 21:46

Sounds like you might be terminating on a BNG far far away vs the SNAP/2d INV BNG.. hence the latency increase. Most of the other larger players only have BNGs in AKl, WLG, HAM, CHC....

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

NickMack

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#3344643 19-Feb-2025 21:50

It aint like the old days eh.... Miss me? ;-)

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

yitz

2075 posts

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#3344652 19-Feb-2025 22:18

Maybe you just gotta wait until both 2d connections are migrated to the newer core network?

arjoll

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#3344662 19-Feb-2025 22:39

NickMack:

It aint like the old days eh.... Miss me? ;-)

True - when I have clients with 2d problems it's just "sorry, I don't know anyone there any more - you might have to call them" - basically on the same level as Spark and One, although slightly easier with clients who gave me authority on their account, assuming that goes over to the new account system.

arjoll

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#3344664 19-Feb-2025 22:46

yitz:

Maybe you just gotta wait until both 2d connections are migrated to the newer core network?

If what Nick says is true and there's no Invercargill BNG on the Slingshot part of the network then it won't help.

My office connection has a static address and /29. I shudder to think how that's all going to work - I've already moved some of the more critical workloads across to Voyager last year after calling to ask about the business plan. I heard back from a mobile reseller in Auckland who didn't know I had access, and was planning to switch work over to CG-NAT. Fortunately I headed that one off at the pass - telling them not to touch my connection and to just leave the plan alone. Saving $5 a month for new plan pricing wouldn't be worth that, and it sounds like SME accounts are not important enough to deal directly with 2d.

Just about to restart the T70 at home. I don't expect an improvement but will be happy if I at least keep my static IP!

arjoll

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#3344712 19-Feb-2025 22:52

As expected - no improvement after a reboot. Still have the static IP though, so that's a positive.

arjoll

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#3344714 19-Feb-2025 23:06

NickMack:

Sounds like you might be terminating on a BNG far far away vs the SNAP/2d INV BNG.. hence the latency increase. Most of the other larger players only have BNGs in AKl, WLG, HAM, CHC....

Thinking on this point, this is a tracert to the office:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.2.76.254
2 4 ms 5 ms 5 ms 101.98.0.98
3 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms 101.98.5.216
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 101.98.5.217
5 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms 111.69.7.244
6 21 ms 19 ms 20 ms 202.124.x.x

So the first hop is 5ms to "v3.cpcwn2-bng1.tranzpeer.net" and is 5ms away. Based on this, it's going somewhere 10ms away then going back to the Invercargill BNG, then to the office. So I guess the best I am likely to see is 10ms if the other connection changes - not sure what 5ms is, I thought Dunedin would be a little longer. I do have a VPN from the office to a Dunedin client on 2degrees, but I've changed the office endpoint to Voyager because of my nervousness about 2d breaking the static IP and /29.

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yitz

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#3344717 19-Feb-2025 23:14

The 101.98.5.216/217 shows its crossing between core networks further afield. otherwise you could expect both connections in Invercargill to be hosted off 101.98.0.98 and the third hop would be the destination at just under 10ms.

Got to say their routing setup is pretty impressive and must be quite complex having say 202.124.96.10 on one core network and 202.124.96.20 on another like it would be pretty cool if Chorus operated at layer 3 instead.

arjoll

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#3344718 19-Feb-2025 23:25

yitz:

The 101.98.5.216/217 shows its crossing between core networks further afield. otherwise you could expect both connections in Invercargill to be hosted off 101.98.0.98 and the third hop would be the destination at just under 10ms.

That's what it was until yesterday - 111.69.7.244 was the middle hop between work and home. Hence the 2ms ping between them. It was pretty sweet!

yitz

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#3344719 19-Feb-2025 23:32

arjoll:

That's what it was until yesterday - 111.69.7.244 was the middle hop between work and home. Hence the 2ms ping between them. It was pretty sweet!

101.98.0.98 looks to be Dunedin BNG so that is what you will have in the future. I guess it is cheaper to trombone traffic when you have n x 100 Gbit/s all over the place.

NickMack

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#3345028 20-Feb-2025 18:09

arjoll:

NickMack:

Sounds like you might be terminating on a BNG far far away vs the SNAP/2d INV BNG.. hence the latency increase. Most of the other larger players only have BNGs in AKl, WLG, HAM, CHC....

Thinking on this point, this is a tracert to the office:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.2.76.254
2 4 ms 5 ms 5 ms 101.98.0.98
3 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms 101.98.5.216
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 101.98.5.217
5 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms 111.69.7.244
6 21 ms 19 ms 20 ms 202.124.x.x

So the first hop is 5ms to "v3.cpcwn2-bng1.tranzpeer.net" and is 5ms away. Based on this, it's going somewhere 10ms away then going back to the Invercargill BNG, then to the office. So I guess the best I am likely to see is 10ms if the other connection changes - not sure what 5ms is, I thought Dunedin would be a little longer. I do have a VPN from the office to a Dunedin client on 2degrees, but I've changed the office endpoint to Voyager because of my nervousness about 2d breaking the static IP and /29.

@aspired Are you able to help/investigate?

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

arjoll

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#3345154 20-Feb-2025 22:47

I heard from a 2degrees tech who is a user on here - it sounds like yes, I was moved over to the Slingshot network and on the nearest handover to me. So I'm guessing that is now Dunedin.

He wasn't sure about the routing between the office and home, but I see I've got 10ms latency on Speedtest to 2degrees Christchurch, so it'll be a safe bet that traffic from work (Snap) to home (Slingshot) trombones via Christchurch.

So it's all a little disappointing that all the work Nick and the team put into creating what would likely be the best consumer/SME network in the South Island is being wound down.

The combo of my wife wanting to keep her southnet.co.nz email and the hassle of changing my static IP addresses and /29 means I'm not likely to move off them, but the other reason for staying (network) is gone now!

Thanks for all the info. Would still be interested if anyone can confirm the routing via Christchurch is the only option (i.e. no interconnect between the two 2degrees networks in Dunedin).

yitz

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#3345156 20-Feb-2025 23:03

arjoll:

Would still be interested if anyone can confirm the routing via Christchurch is the only option (i.e. no interconnect between the two 2degrees networks in Dunedin).

It's only going back to Christchurch because that's the closest point where the old Snap core network meets the Slingshot core network (hops 101.98.5.216/217). If the office connection is also moved from Snap to Slingshot then it only has to go via Dunedin (101.98.0.98). You could enquire as to whether they could fast track that along for you?

What facilities are there in Invercargill? Peeringdb database only shows Chorus exchange with Feenix and Mercury present? No idea if they host UFB connections from there.
https://www.peeringdb.com/fac/11998

Is the old Snap network still operate on the FX network (did that ever reach Invercargill?) or also Chorus too?

openmedia

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#3377256 27-May-2025 14:00

Looks like Orcon have a fresh set of routing issues via feenix.co.nz. I can't get to a number of sites for the last couple of days including mightyape. Is anyone else with Orcon or 2degrees seeing the same issue?

t14s.local (192.168.0.57) -> www.mightyape.co.nz (151.101.130.133) 2025-05-27T13:59:27+1200
Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit
Packets Pings
Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. _gateway 0.0% 16 0.6 0.6 0.5 0.8 0.1
2. default-rdns.vocus.co.nz 0.0% 16 1.3 1.7 1.3 2.3 0.3
3. default-rdns.vocus.co.nz 0.0% 16 2.6 2.2 1.8 3.1 0.4
4. default-rdns.vocus.co.nz 0.0% 16 13.8 14.2 13.5 17.6 1.0
5. (waiting for reply)
6. 124.150.165.1 0.0% 16 14.9 14.7 14.2 15.6 0.4
7. 124.150.165.2 0.0% 16 15.5 15.2 14.5 16.7 0.5
8. (waiting for reply)
9. 223-26-27-8.feenix.co.nz 92.9% 15 14.9 14.9 14.9 14.9 0.0
10. as54113.akl.ix.nz 0.0% 15 15.6 17.0 14.4 37.6 5.8
11. 151.101.130.133 0.0% 15 14.6 15.6 14.5 20.5 1.5

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

yitz

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#3377257 27-May-2025 14:13

openmedia:

Looks like Orcon have a fresh set of routing issues via feenix.co.nz. I can't get to a number of sites for the last couple of days including mightyape. Is anyone else with Orcon or 2degrees seeing the same issue?

Did you mean to post in this thread? https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81&topicid=318294

Would be interesting to know whether it was the filter infrastructure playing havoc with website authentication...

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