2degrees, please block my phone that has been stolen

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › 2degrees, please block my phone that has been stolen

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#926839 4-Nov-2013 09:19

phantomdb: its still a bad responce fron 2d, "Oh it was not on our network" it should be yes and how can we help, yet again 2d is Supporting crime and allowing these stolen phones on there network isnt that an accessory to the event.

No it isn't - this is just a prime example of how today's society expect everything for them to be done yesterday.

They are not supporting crime, there is just a loophole. It's like saying the NZ govt is supporting crime by not forcing them to do it. Get a grip.

stevenz

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#926840 4-Nov-2013 09:21

coffeebaron: Why should 2degrees have to "police" what's on their network?

Because rendering stolen devices (mostly) useless would dramatically reduce the theft of said devices.

And not to single out 2D, but all TelCo's should (IMO), once provided with legal proof, block known stolen devices from being used, which they do to an extent. As John says, this is a fairly manual process so probably not in their financial interest, and realistically, they're all in the business of making money. As mentioned above, this could potentially fall under a "proceeds of crime" scenario, would be interesting to see a legal take on this.

Until recently, anything you saw on Trademe with "Only works on 2Degrees" was an almost certain indicator of a stolen device. With the removal of the VF/Telecom shared blacklist, this is less of a guarantee.

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#926848 4-Nov-2013 09:29

Kyanar:
1080p:
phantomdb: its still a bad responce fron 2d, "Oh it was not on our network" it should be yes and how can we help, yet again 2d is Supporting crime and allowing these stolen phones on there network isnt that an accessory to the event.

I absolutely agree, I keep complaining every time I notice the NZTA allowing stolen cars to drive on their roads. Disgraceful, the lot of them!

False analogy. NZTA does not police what drive on their roads, the police do. And the police don't allow stolen cars to drive on "their" roads. So really, your analogy just lends credibility to phantomdb's assertion.

I think you missed the sarcasm in 1080p's reply. Also 1080p didn't put a emoticon to make it easier to detect the sarcasm.

gundar

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#927703 5-Nov-2013 15:47

A couple of years ago, I lost my new phone and was damned if I could find it, so I went to VF to get it blocked. Police report, hoops, insurance co. etc. Went to see the VF person in the VF branded store and was assured it was blocked, got proof and paperwork for insurance co. Purchased a replacement phone there, cash, as old phone was not subsidised and I didn't qualify for a new handset, needed a phone urgently for work.

A few months later, found the damn thing in a mates couch. It was one of those super slim, pre-smartphone ones, slipped to the bottom of the couch without a thud.

Police report withdrawn, insurance notified, went to VF to get it unblocked was told categorically: "This phone isn't and never has been blocked".

True story.

ajobbins

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#927773 5-Nov-2013 18:22

There is no technical reason why 2degrees (or any carrier) couldn't block it, they are choosing not to (read what you will into reasons for this).

You don't need a shared EIR to make that work, but it does mean each carrier has to apply the block themselves.

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sdav

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#927939 5-Nov-2013 23:50

What are people's thoughts on needing photo ID to purchase a prepay SIM card? Do you think it's too easy for people not be tied to a pre pay sim?

SaltyNZ

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#927965 6-Nov-2013 07:02

sdav: What are people's thoughts on needing photo ID to purchase a prepay SIM card? Do you think it's too easy for people not be tied to a pre pay sim?

I don't get why everyone is so desperate to throw away all the freedoms our ancestors worked and fought so hard to get. There are no boogie men. There is nobody under your bed just waiting for you to relax so they can blow you up. Terrorists - and there is no reason to believe there even are any here, other than 'trust me, I'm the Prime Minister' - want you to be afraid. If you buy into the party line that at all costs we must destroy freedom in order to save it, then you've handed them the victory without a fight.

So... no, I don't see why there should be a requirement for photo ID to get a prepay SIM. There are a thousand reasons why you might want to get one without having to present ID, and there are as many good ones as bad ones. A dangerous criminal might want to buy one? Sure, they might. And they'll just send an expendable idiot to go get it for them. It solves none of the problems you think it will, but it also makes it that much more difficult for someone who has a *good* reason for remaining anonymous to get one.

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sdav

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#927986 6-Nov-2013 08:26

SaltyNZ:
sdav: What are people's thoughts on needing photo ID to purchase a prepay SIM card? Do you think it's too easy for people not be tied to a pre pay sim?

I don't get why everyone is so desperate to throw away all the freedoms our ancestors worked and fought so hard to get. There are no boogie men. There is nobody under your bed just waiting for you to relax so they can blow you up. Terrorists - and there is no reason to believe there even are any here, other than 'trust me, I'm the Prime Minister' - want you to be afraid. If you buy into the party line that at all costs we must destroy freedom in order to save it, then you've handed them the victory without a fight.

So... no, I don't see why there should be a requirement for photo ID to get a prepay SIM. There are a thousand reasons why you might want to get one without having to present ID, and there are as many good ones as bad ones. A dangerous criminal might want to buy one? Sure, they might. And they'll just send an expendable idiot to go get it for them. It solves none of the problems you think it will, but it also makes it that much more difficult for someone who has a *good* reason for remaining anonymous to get one.

Ha it was hardly about boogie men (although it seems that could apply equally to you), terrorists and ancestors fighting for pre-pay sims... Since I signed up to a plan I guess I have given into terrorism and fear since they requested ID. I'm not actually bothered either way but just wondered why since some places do it.

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#927999 6-Nov-2013 09:03

sdav:

Ha it was hardly about boogie men (although it seems that could apply equally to you), terrorists and ancestors fighting for pre-pay sims... Since I signed up to a plan I guess I have given into terrorism and fear since they requested ID. I'm not actually bothered either way but just wondered why since some places do it.

Signing up to a plan is different. Someone is giving you credit; they need to know who is going to pay, and getting ID is perfectly reasonable under those circumstances. There are also very strict rules in force about what may be collected and how it must be stored.

It's also interesting to note that the places where the requirement for ID to get a prepay SIM first came about are generally the kinds of places you would migrate to New Zealand away from.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

trig42

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#928006 6-Nov-2013 09:28

SaltyNZ:
sdav:

Ha it was hardly about boogie men (although it seems that could apply equally to you), terrorists and ancestors fighting for pre-pay sims... Since I signed up to a plan I guess I have given into terrorism and fear since they requested ID. I'm not actually bothered either way but just wondered why since some places do it.

Signing up to a plan is different. Someone is giving you credit; they need to know who is going to pay, and getting ID is perfectly reasonable under those circumstances. There are also very strict rules in force about what may be collected and how it must be stored.

It's also interesting to note that the places where the requirement for ID to get a prepay SIM first came about are generally the kinds of places you would migrate to New Zealand away from.

I thought Australia required ID for a SIM?
Pretty sure I had to provide ID and an address when I bought a prepaid SIM off Telstra last time I was there.

SaltyNZ

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#928016 6-Nov-2013 09:45

trig42:
Pretty sure I had to provide ID and an address when I bought a prepaid SIM off Telstra last time I was there.

I believe that's true, yes. The Australian government has also jumped on the power grab bandwagon. But the places where the practice started are the kind of authoritarian places you'd want to move away from - the middle east, eastern Europe etc.

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2degreesCare

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#928024 6-Nov-2013 09:57

ajobbins: There is no technical reason why 2degrees (or any carrier) couldn't block it, they are choosing not to (read what you will into reasons for this).

You don't need a shared EIR to make that work, but it does mean each carrier has to apply the block themselves.

True, technically we can block it. However we must have the details and proper authority from the customer. If the OP can provide a copy of a police report and details then we can follow up with the owner.

When the industry blacklisting is in place (hopefully soon) it will resolve these issues.

Unfortunately some people may try to maliciously block another IMEI which is what we are trying to avoid.

Cheers
^POB

Klipspringer

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#928025 6-Nov-2013 10:02

2DegreesCare:

When the industry blacklisting is in place (hopefully soon) it will resolve these issues.

This is a catchphrase from the last century.
Unfortunately its been so long now that I don't believe it will ever happen here in New Zealand.

I had a phone blocked in South Africa in the late 90's. Talk about being behind the times.

SaltyNZ

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#928035 6-Nov-2013 10:27

Klipspringer:
This is a catchphrase from the last century.
Unfortunately its been so long now that I don't believe it will ever happen here in New Zealand.

Unfortunately this isn't some simple product change that might affect a percentage of our own customers if it's buggy. If the EIR list sharing doesn't work properly then best case it's no worse than it is now, but it also could block every handset in the country. We feel this is something a few people might have a problem with, so we prefer to get it right before we launch.

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Klipspringer

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#928042 6-Nov-2013 10:44

SaltyNZ:

Unfortunately this isn't some simple product change that might affect a percentage of our own customers if it's buggy. If the EIR list sharing doesn't work properly then best case it's no worse than it is now, but it also could block every handset in the country. We feel this is something a few people might have a problem with, so we prefer to get it right before we launch.

Agreed. But its not a problem limited to New Zealand.
And nearly 2 decades later we still have not seemed to work it out.

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