What's going on with 2 Degrees VDSL?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › What's going on with 2 Degrees VDSL?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#1706162 20-Jan-2017 07:24

Jace is correct here, from a terms standpoint. 2degress are suppling a working connection.

2d would be alot more compelled to need to fix the issue if say, your ppp transit was not reaching line speed but past that...

If you do bring this up, two situations are likely to happen.
The first being the agent will simply hold their ground in supporting their device.
The second is the agent will have pitty on the situation, they will raise it with chorus asure and their internal tech support. End of this will be a long jargon of essentially, nothing is wrong.

From a consumer view, totally it sucks. But this is simply the world of dsl. Analog signals can be translated by many devices and no device is going to be 100% equal.
You likely have a larger case with avm than 2g.

I would recommend simply grabbing the tplink although in the vdsl world that chipset is dated and due to be superseeded. Its the low end cheapest option.
You may be able to discuss the issue with 2degrees and be sent a referb 7390 which is why i named that particular device. Utlimately though as said before. If you want to minmax, that is your choice. Not a providers requirement.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1706486 20-Jan-2017 16:05

I would recommend simply grabbing the tplink although in the vdsl world that chipset is dated and due to be superseeded. Its the low end cheapest option.
You may be able to discuss the issue with 2degrees and be sent a referb 7390 which is why i named that particular device. Utlimately though as said before. If you want to minmax, that is your choice. Not a providers requirement.

At this stage I would probably prefer the TP-Link over the 7390 given that I've seen it actually work.

We also have a landline supplied through 2 Degrees and that runs off the 7490 as well. Could that actually be a factor?
(It's the only thing that strikes me as different from the TP-Link WD-9970 test.. as that didn't have our phone-base plugged into it.)

Is it a requirement to run the landline through the 7490, or can we just use the normal jack points for that?

And since you have been looking at a lot of modems, what are your thoughts on the Netgear DM200?
It's a very clean, stand alone modem that appeals a lot (as I have no need for WiFi or any other fancy features) but I think it's sporting the Lantiq VRX220 chipset, opposed to the Broadcomm in the TP-Link. Would that be the same chipset as in the 7490?

hio77

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#1706490 20-Jan-2017 16:08

Run the 7490 behind your own router. It will handle the phone

Iirc the lanq is in the fritz too. But I'm out of pocket right now.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1707308 22-Jan-2017 09:54

And we're down to 31 Mb/s download and 1.8 Mb/s upload....and 2 years to go until we finally get fibre.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1707322 22-Jan-2017 10:45

erik:

And we're down to 31 Mb/s download and 1.8 Mb/s upload....and 2 years to go until we finally get fibre.

Different chipsets and modems handle xDSL connections differently. They always have, and always will. In the VDSL2 world DLM will also actively set rates that it believes are best suited to your line. The fact a different piece of CPE is syncing at a higher rate does not mean it will stay synced at that rate, or that that rate will deliver you the best connection. It's entirely possible with a different CPE that you may see constant flapping of your connection as speeds move up and down because there quite possibly is something on the line causing the Fritz to sync at a lower rate.

The downside of Chorus moving to 998 is that upstream speeds are slower for some people. That's just something you have to live with because your connection is fully within spec and a lot better than many other VDSL2 connections out there.

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1707391 22-Jan-2017 12:18

But where are these mythical specs published?

If you say that I am "within spec" and therefore cannot argue that 2 Degrees is not delivering the promised "best connection available at your home", then where are these specifications published and governed by what authority?

I checked my contract, there is nothing in there in terms of minimal acceptable specifications that both me and my ISP agreed upon when signing the contract?

I can't find anything on the Chorus website either so if you say I am within spec, as it unreasonable for me to ask to see the definition of these specs?

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1707405 22-Jan-2017 12:35

erik:

But where are these mythical specs published?

If you say that I am "within spec" and therefore cannot argue that 2 Degrees is not delivering the promised "best connection available at your home", then where are these specifications published and governed by what authority?

You're within spec merely on the basis that you have a connection. Like *every* copper connection in NZ it's best effort as the connection speed is dictated to primarily by your distance from the cabinet or exchange so there is no such thing as a "spec" determining your connection. You're clearly some distance from a cabinet or exchange and therefore can't expect to get the 100/50 (or the 70/30 in your case being connected to an Ikanos card) that somebody living right next to a cabinet or exchange could theoretically get. Likewise there is no "authority" to "govern" anything as a result of this.

When VDSL2 was launched the minimum connection was deemed to be 15/5. This was scrapped as part the VDSL2 expansion and is no longer relevant with 998

Your connection is working and working entirely as intended with no fault. The fact two different modems sync at different rates is entirely normal. If you want to tweak your connection to achieve higher rates then that is up to you - it's no different from the ADSL world where people would tweak modems to increase their sync rates and/or see different sync rates with different modems with different chipsets.

I'm still not quite sure what you want 2d to actually do because there is actually nothing for them to fix.

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1708129 23-Jan-2017 15:04

sbiddle:

Your connection is working and working entirely as intended with no fault. The fact two different modems sync at different rates is entirely normal. If you want to tweak your connection to achieve higher rates then that is up to you - it's no different from the ADSL world where people would tweak modems to increase their sync rates and/or see different sync rates with different modems with different chipsets.

I understand that there can be a difference but is twice the upload speed normal? I'm more than happy to purchase a broadcomm chipset modem and give that a try.

Although technically I'm not allowed to, not according to the 2 Degrees contract. But technically, it should work I think?

The last few days my VDSL connection has been all over the place. Yesterday, I was getting 18 Mb/s and 800 kb/s upload - that's quite a drop from 32 Mb/s and 2 Mb/s upload that I had over the last months before the problems set in two weeks ago. Last night my connection was reset again, judging my the DSL status page on the 7490, and now it's connecting at 26 Mb/s and 1 Mb/s.

Would the weather be a factor in this? I just wonder why my connection is now all over the place.

hio77

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#1708230 23-Jan-2017 18:51

Weather could very well be a factor, although it sounds like you are having quite an issue relating to chipset incompatibilities here.

nothing is stopping you from using a third party Modem, 2degrees may enforce you use their device as an ATA however.

I have seen multiple cases where hanging the 2degress fritz behind another modem is totally find for providing ATA service (however it may not have the same QOS attributed towards the phoneline)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1708305 23-Jan-2017 20:50

The 2 Degrees Support person was also a bit mystified as to why the 7490 was syncing so low compared to what Chorus logged in their report. He figured it may have something to do with the VOIP phone line as well though he also admitted that it shouldn't consume half the upload.

We've put in the new modem and we'll leave it for a week to stabilize and see from there. However, they don't have anything else but 7490's so I may have to look to put another modem in there as well. I'm considering getting the NetComm NF10W as it has the same BCM63381 chipset as the TP-Link WD-9970 (which sycned at 5.5 Mbs upload straightaway) but the NF10W has Gigabit Ethernet ports and is also suitable for fibre so its not a short-term investment. It's about $50 more than the TP-Link WD-9970 but that's money well spend on not having to toss the modem in the bin when fibre finally gets here. (December 2019..... )

hio77

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#1708318 23-Jan-2017 21:05

NF10W Does certainly look like a better option over the WD-9970 which i admit did seem a little on the cheaper side.

Still not keen on a few future standards of that particular chipset, however the NF10W will have another chip alongside for the gbit Ethernet.

In your case, absolutely go for it!

the snapdegrees support person is right, it is strange for the gap to be so large, if it was say.. 4 vs 5 mbit i would totally be all good with the vaules, but 1~2 vs 5.5 is massive.

@Lorenceo may have a little more to add on VDSL upstream rates, as it is a battle he too has looked at a fair bit.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Lorenceo

904 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1708384 23-Jan-2017 23:12

I'm in a similar situation to you OP. VDSL to my place doesn't achieve the sort of upload I want (it varies between 3 and 4.7Mbps up), and Chorus say there's nothing wrong. As annoying as it is, there's not anything further your ISP can do for you, no matter which one you choose. They all go through Chorus.

I also achieve lower sync rates with the supplied Fritzbox, and as a result don't use it as the modem. Instead I use a different modem in bridge mode (an HG659), as of the modems I've tried, I've found it to achieve the best balance in sync speed and reliability.

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1708725 24-Jan-2017 13:57

Lorenceo:

I'm in a similar situation to you OP. VDSL to my place doesn't achieve the sort of upload I want (it varies between 3 and 4.7Mbps up), and Chorus say there's nothing wrong. As annoying as it is, there's not anything further your ISP can do for you, no matter which one you choose. They all go through Chorus.

It's quite funny - in my case it's the opposite problem. Chorus is saying that there is clearly something wrong with the equipment provided by the ISP as the Chorus supplied infrastructure achieves 5.5 Mb/s upload but the modem isn't able to make the most of it. So in my case, Chorus is agreeing with me - which I will admit to be a rare and unusual situation.

At the same time, 2 Degrees is not disagreeing with me either! So we're all agreeing that something is wrong but nevertheless I still do not have the upload I ought to be getting, or could be getting judging by Chorus. I don't have any spare cash for another modem, I will probably get the NF10W as it seems to make the most sense.

However, there is one thing that just came to me......

The Chorus tech had disassembled the jack point and attached a flat connector (credit card size) to the wiring of the jack point and clamped the cables of his handheld testing device (which read 5.64 Mb/s upload, with a line attenuation of 18 dB). I am not certain if he attached the TP-Link router to the actual jack point, or to the same big flat connector.

However, my 7490 registers an upload attenuation of 23 dB. Where is that additional 5 dB coming from? Could the jack point Ethernet connector be faulty?

If that is the case, and assuming that the tech connected to the TP-Link router also directly to the wiring of the jack point, could that explain the issue we are seeing with 2 different 7490s and 2 different CAT cables between modem and jack point?

Is there any way I can test this myself?

Lorenceo

904 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1708833 24-Jan-2017 16:11

Different modems have different chipsets. Different chipsets achieve different sync rates.

There's nothing wrong with your Fritzbox as such, nor the Chorus network (by their definition as discussed earlier in the thread) it's just that the hardware within the Fritzbox can only achieve speed X. Other modems achieve speed Y. If you want speed Y, use a different modem.

My sync speed is low due to the situation with the old copper cabling in the street (and potentially bridge taps being present, at least according to LQDs).

erik

58 posts

Master Geek

#1708855 24-Jan-2017 16:30

That certainly is true but why does the 7490 registers 5 dB more attenuation noise than another device plugged into the same jack point/wire?

I'm not so sure if that is a difference in chipsets? And arguably speaking, would the 7490 not sync higher if it were to also only see 18 dB vs 23 dB?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4