PSA - Orcon has a 30 day 'notice of cancellation' period in an Open Term Contract. Just got stung a months fee for nothing.

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › PSA - Orcon has a 30 day 'notice of cancellation' period in an Open Term Contract. Just got stung a months fee for nothing.

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#2742373 11-Jul-2021 11:51

Dial111: I'm finding it difficult to understand how people don't read the basic terms before signing up and then cry foul because they got caught out, it's not hidden from you, it's there when you signed up.

Oh - I totally admit this is on me!!

My point was I am hoping to avoid other Geekzone readers the same fact. An extra months cost is usually around $100+ for most people, I can afford it but I know there are many who can't or for who it'll cause financial distress.

Changing your ISP is not something done very often, and regularly done in order to save money.

If you worked out you'd save $100+ over a year (E.g. $10 a month cheaper) with a new ISP, only to get charged an extra $100 because of this stupid clause you've just totally lost that saving.

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#2742652 11-Jul-2021 19:47

antonknee:

The day of? No, probably not. But I have done the day or two after moving and a few days before moving. I’m not talking about the rent/landlord by the way, I’m talking about service providers - I mentioned renting only because renters move more often than homeowners, and to illustrate that I’ve exited plenty of service provider arrangements.

I am having a problem reconciling the life you apparently lead where you require no notice for things with the reality that most people I know live in.

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#2742707 11-Jul-2021 20:09

tehgerbil:

If you worked out you'd save $100+ over a year (E.g. $10 a month cheaper) with a new ISP, only to get charged an extra $100 because of this stupid clause you've just totally lost that saving.

What are you talking about? Giving 30 days notice is not paying for a service you won't be using.

You will get 30 days of service for the $100 you pay, you just give notice, pay your $100, get your 30 days service and then change providers on the anniversary or ideally the day before?

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#2742716 11-Jul-2021 20:23

I agree with @networkn on this point. If you provide 30 (or more) days notice, you will not under any circumstance be expected to pay for services that weren't provided.
If an provider tries this, it will be in error and if they refuse to fix, they will be in breach of the Fair Trading Act.

Provided that the terms of the contract have been presented and are clear, I don't see this being an unenforceable provision (even if I don't agree with it personally). What is interesting, is that some of these 30 day notice provisions are not clear on how notice shall be given: Some providers expect you to submit a porting order with a RFS date 30 days in the future... however some folks have found that simply calling/online chatting the telco and asking for the fact that they have given notice to be added to their account notes. Often this will result in the automated systems charging 30 days notice but upon escalation, this will be waived/credited back.

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#2742850 12-Jul-2021 07:43

Everybody so far seems to have overlooked what is one of the super obvious reasons why this is a standard requirement with pretty much every RSP in existence - pretty much every RSP changes for broadband monthly in advance. Such policies are pretty much standard across other pay in advance/subscription style businesses where you're required to give notice equal to the billing period.

I can't see why anybody would not see the logic in giving notice to avoid paying for an extra month that you'll have no way of using.

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#2743431 12-Jul-2021 20:49

When I churned my broadband connection I signed my to my new provider 1 day after I was billed my my former provider with a churn date of 2 days before my next billing cycle effectively giving them notice

I was not double billed for anything (apart from 2 days)

Also just be aware if you give notice your former provider and they put a disconnection order through to chorus, your new provider can't transfer, they will need to do a new connection after the current in-flight disconnection order completes

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

antonknee

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#2743442 12-Jul-2021 21:23

Paying in advance is another weird quirk of telco but it is what it is. But paying in advance doesn’t preclude refunding what you’ve paid - for example if you pay your insurance premium annually and then cancel you get a prorata refund for the unused portion. Funny that telcos understand prorata when it comes to your first bill, but then conveniently forget about when you jump ship.

No amount of talking about how it’s in the contract, or how it makes sense because services are paid in advance, or because Chorus does it, or blah blah blah will convince me that 30 day notice periods are friendly to consumers. These things are all totally different concepts that have nothing to with being consumer friendly.

But seeing as everyone here apparently loves giving telcos money for jam, perhaps a compromise like Netflix where if you cancel part way through a month, you get to use it up until the date you’re paid up to - be that a day, a week, or the whole month. Makes the most sense to me.

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#2743444 12-Jul-2021 21:32

antonknee:

But seeing as everyone here apparently loves giving telcos money for jam, perhaps a compromise like Netflix where if you cancel part way through a month, you get to use it up until the date you’re paid up to - be that a day, a week, or the whole month. Makes the most sense to me.

See the comments by Cokemaster, sbiddle, and me.

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#2743445 12-Jul-2021 21:35

But changing doesn't cost anything extra, nobody needs to overpay, nobody needs to deal with the hassle of refunds. All you need to do is give 30 days notice like they say and everything works perfectly.

Not giving notice is when all the problems start.

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#2743456 12-Jul-2021 22:18

networkn:

antonknee:

But seeing as everyone here apparently loves giving telcos money for jam, perhaps a compromise like Netflix where if you cancel part way through a month, you get to use it up until the date you’re paid up to - be that a day, a week, or the whole month. Makes the most sense to me.

See the comments by Cokemaster, sbiddle, and me.

Yeah, I did, and I understand the point made about giving notice when you get charged and it all lines up nicely with the 30 day requirement. Sure, that’s fine. My point around Netflix is more I can cancel the subscription the day it ends (the day before my new billing month at my RSP would start I guess) and that’s it - I walk away and don’t pay another cent, and can happily subscribe to Neon

I just think the arbitrary (well not totally arbitrary to be fair) 30 day notice period isn’t consumer friendly, other utilities don’t require it, and it’s obviously caught a few people out (their fault) and I just don’t think it should exist - but I can see that’s not a popular opinion around these parts. And to each their own I suppose.

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#2743460 12-Jul-2021 22:43

I'm not quite in agreement comparing to insurance. Or netflix

If you paid a year up front at full non discounted monthly pricing for a telco. They possibly would have the swing to do that too. But it's a different market and that wouldn't likely fly. Insurance is a service you may not use. Don't use it, get a rebate. Use it. You also may lose the discounted bonus AND be asked pay additional (contract agreed fee) on top of the set fee paid already too.

Vs. An internet connection, basically a by-the-second use service from signing so comes with up front caveats.

Netflix? single provider - netflix.com. There's no shared agreements to use someone elses infrastructure to provide you that service. As easy as a 365 license change to stop access to P2 Visio.

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/phone-mobile-and-internet/cancel-your-plan/ - Trying to make internet forever to work around a date in particular to chop to someone else and have no downtime?

Doesn't quite work thanks to the infrastructure->wholesale->retail->consumer systems that this country is ultimately now built on to provide the end user the service.

It may be arbitrary, but it's better than the old alternative - Up to 30 days with no internet while the requests are processed by 3rd party. Infact it was worse prior to allowing the 2nd ONT port to be provisioned for RSP overlap rather than wait a potential ~30 day RQ w/sale processing period where it hadn't been ordered right thanks to the port lock the system has.

Also not really a sneaky written in change in most cases. Warning signs have been in this area since at least 5 years. https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81&topicid=196665

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#2743497 13-Jul-2021 08:27

sbiddle:

But changing doesn't cost anything extra, nobody needs to overpay, nobody needs to deal with the hassle of refunds. All you need to do is give 30 days notice like they say and everything works perfectly.

As long as your new provider has put in a Transfer order before the LSP puts in a Cancellation Order

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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#2743504 13-Jul-2021 09:45

Without comment: Bigpipe - How to switch ISPs (without ruing everything)

– If your current ISP is one of those annoying ones that requires 30 days notice, (which is most of them – so check!) then you can ask us to connect you, say, 35 days in the future so you don’t end up being double billed – no worries, we’ll wait.

– If you just want to get on Bigpipe goodness ASAP, then choose a convenient date for that (just bear in mind your current ISP might charge you an extra 30 days even though they aren’t providing you a service, just because they like free money and putting ‘gotchas’ in their contract).

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#2743512 13-Jul-2021 10:15

sbiddle:

Everybody so far seems to have overlooked what is one of the super obvious reasons why this is a standard requirement with pretty much every RSP in existence - pretty much every RSP changes for broadband monthly in advance. Such policies are pretty much standard across other pay in advance/subscription style businesses where you're required to give notice equal to the billing period.

I can't see why anybody would not see the logic in giving notice to avoid paying for an extra month that you'll have no way of using.

I think this one is pretty key though. If you have paid in advance, as long as you give notice any time prior to the next billing cycle (with some fair turnaround time for processing the request, etc.), why should 30 days be required? (ignoring the fine print in the contract that says 'because you need to' and assuming you had paid your bill). - I think this is also really what @antonknee is saying as well. In this scenario, the RSP and Chorus have been paid and the only person missing out would be the subscriber who might miss out on 1-30 days of the month they paid in advance.

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#2743518 13-Jul-2021 10:33

mrdrifter:

why should 30 days be required? (ignoring the fine print in the contract that says 'because you need to' and assuming you had paid your bill). - I think this is also really what @antonknee is saying as well. In this scenario, the RSP and Chorus have been paid and the only person missing out would be the subscriber who might miss out on 1-30 days of the month they paid in advance.

And potential connection loss/no internet which everyone would probably hate/demand be fixed more than an additional cost (again, they're using loss of connection wording as a sales advantage). Which I think nowadays is avoided if you give the appropriate notice.

Under the same bigpipe page above was scraped from (who are potentially using it as a loss-leading sales advantage)

When you want to get broadband you place an order with your desired ISP (probably Bigpipe) and they then place the order with Chorus.
Then about 4-6 days later, a friendly Chorus technician pootles on out to the phone exchange in his trendy Chorus van, moves some cables and stuff, and then you have internet.

However, when you are dealing with a line that already has internet from another provider sitting on it, things have the potential to get hairy. We’ll need to delve a wee bit into Telco lingo here – but don’t worry, it should all become clear soon enough.

Basically, each line is only ever allowed to have one single unfinished piece of work at a time. (called an ‘open service order’ in telco land). This could be a fault that hasn’t been fixed yet, or a disconnection request for a future date – it doesn’t matter.
Provided your line doesn’t have an existing ‘open service order’ then your new ISP can place a ‘transition’ order with Chorus. This means the technician goes out to the exchange and does the whole job at once – disconnecting you from ISP A, and connecting you to ISP B. This means your downtime should be less than an hour. Nice! That’s what we want.

And that is where this spawned from http://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/multiple-primary-offers-single-ont

But notice most ISPs tend to define single contracts with 'broadband' to make for less reading/confusion. And not separate requirements for each physical connection type. So what do you do?, it appears lump them all with common clauses - like a 30 day. Despite the advantage of ONT hands-off provisioning now

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