2 Degrees Stuffed Up (or not)?

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#417263 14-Dec-2010 21:06

DonGould: I've got bowenvale.co.nz because I've paid my monthly sub. I don't have to have it delegated to anything to keep hold of it. Why should 021 114 0699 be any different?

The DRS seems to be able to run at a profit and only cost me $2.10 a month and there's a truck load less domains than there are active phone numbers in .nz iirc.

So you are paying the domain name a monthly fee of $2.10 to keep it - and there are a much larger namespace available for domains than for mobile numbers... It seems 2degrees is asking for less than what you pay for your domain then?

freitasm

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#417264 14-Dec-2010 21:07

DonGould:
SaltyNZ:
DonGould: lol... caught! I can get it for ~$16 if I have 1024 friends.

Heh, bring 1024 friends to 2degrees and I reckon I can work something out for you there too!

I asked about that earlier in the week and got a very cold answers.

I've got a retail shop and growing a number of new business projects... 2Talk were easy to deal with (other than sending me PDFs that required me to edit in photo shop with a machine that decided to lock up).

If the dairy down the road can make profit selling Telecom top up cards? Hummm....

D

You can establish a 2degrees reseller and then you can sign up lots of clients/friends. I know some people doing this.

SaltyNZ

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#417268 14-Dec-2010 21:09

DonGould:
SaltyNZ:
DonGould: lol... caught! I can get it for ~$16 if I have 1024 friends.

Heh, bring 1024 friends to 2degrees and I reckon I can work something out for you there too!

I asked about that earlier in the week and got a very cold answers.

I've got a retail shop and growing a number of new business projects...? 2Talk were easy to deal with (other than sending me PDFs that required me to edit in photo shop with a machine that decided to lock up).

If the dairy down the road can make profit selling Telecom top up cards?? Hummm....

D

If you're serious about it, PM me and I'll put you in touch with the right people.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

nate

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#417329 14-Dec-2010 22:29

DonGould: Seems fair... think 12 months is a bit short, 5 years seems more reasonable... the numbers can't be that short can they?

5 years? Are you serious? Surely you don't think that someone who doesn't top up their prepay mobile for 4.5 years is still going to use it? 12 months is plenty of time.

greengeek: This whole issue serves to illustrate the trend for large corporates to ignore customer satisfaction.

Both 2 Degrees and Vodafone had a chance here to make a customer happy and both fell short. (Would've expected better from 2 Degrees...)

Have you been reading this topic from the beginning?

The OP had a full year to port, and waited until the very last day to try and port. If their number was so important, why would you not do it a week before? 2Degrees/Vodafone have done nothing wrong, the OP stuffed up.

Sorry but both your reasonings are whack.

SteveON

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#417331 14-Dec-2010 22:34

How far off topic does a topic become before it's considered off topic? or am I out of line with the topic request?

Sorry but this is going around in circles and I get told off for being a jack ***

DonGould

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#417334 14-Dec-2010 22:39

nate:
DonGould: Seems fair... think 12 months is a bit short, 5 years seems more reasonable... the numbers can't be that short can they?

5 years? Are you serious? Surely you don't think that someone who doesn't top up their prepay mobile for 4.5 years is still going to use it? 12 months is plenty of time.

Nate, I agree you might put the pstn number on the sim back in the pool, but to make the sim redundant? why? To be honest, I don't have a clue what's on a sim. Last time I looked at a mobile phone close enough to read the numbers it still used an esn.

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#417415 15-Dec-2010 06:58

DonGould: why? To be honest, I don't have a clue what's on a sim.

The two most critical things on a SIM are the IMSI and the Ki. The IMSI is the number that the mobile network uses to identify you. The Ki is a shared secret.

These numbers are also stored in the AuC. They are used in the cryptographic challenge/response and session ciphering key generation. By design, Ki cannot be retrieved from the SIM, and even if it could it would still be cheaper just to provide a new one. :-)

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greengeek

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#417422 15-Dec-2010 07:40

nate: If their number was so important, why would you not do it a week before? 2Degrees/Vodafone have done nothing wrong, the OP stuffed up.

Sorry but both your reasonings are whack.

Sounds like you feel the OP deliberately left it too late? I doubt it was deliberate. It is in the nature of human beings to live according to seasonal behaviour, rather than living their lives according to an Outlook calendar.

Who writes down the date of a SIM purchase and keeps track of it?

Most people remember things like that in relation to why they bought the phone etc in the first place. eg: the phone may have been a birthday gift, xmas gift etc,

A similar thing happened to me once, when I remembered in December that my emergency (glovebox) phone had been bought at xmas and the credit was due to expire. That is what prompted me to buy a prepay topup. Unfortunately Vodafone had a billing centre problem at the time and the credit was not applied. I found out a couple of weeks later (when I needed to use the phone) that the sim had now been disabled and the number was "unrecoverable".

It was a number that I really wanted to keep because it made an excellent "wordfind". Too bad. I had lost the number, and then I lost the $20 prepay credit because the Vfone customer services girl used up the voucher number herself. No recompense from Vfone unfortnately.

There are times when a corporate needs to have compasion for the humans they do business with.

You think its ok to have a strict rule about the one year expiry, but I disagree. I prefer to do business with companies that show a little more willingness to put customer satisfaction high up the list.

keewee01

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#417423 15-Dec-2010 07:54

greengeek:
nate: If their number was so important, why would you not do it a week before? 2Degrees/Vodafone have done nothing wrong, the OP stuffed up.

Sorry but both your reasonings are whack.

Sounds like you feel the OP deliberately left it too late? I doubt it was deliberate. It is in the nature of human beings to live according to seasonal behaviour, rather than living their lives according to an Outlook calendar.

Who writes down the date of a SIM purchase and keeps track of it?

Most people remember things like that in relation to why they bought the phone etc in the first place. eg: the phone may have been a birthday gift, xmas gift etc,

A similar thing happened to me once, when I remembered in December that my emergency (glovebox) phone had been bought at xmas and the credit was due to expire. That is what prompted me to buy a prepay topup. Unfortunately Vodafone had a billing centre problem at the time and the credit was not applied. I found out a couple of weeks later (when I needed to use the phone) that the sim had now been disabled and the number was "unrecoverable".

It was a number that I really wanted to keep because it made an excellent "wordfind". Too bad. I had lost the number, and then I lost the $20 prepay credit because the Vfone customer services girl used up the voucher number herself. No recompense from Vfone unfortnately.

There are times when a corporate needs to have compasion for the humans they do business with.

You think its ok to have a strict rule about the one year expiry, but I disagree. I prefer to do business with companies that show a little more willingness to put customer satisfaction high up the list.

You still sound like that you've not read the entire thread from start to finish and are picking the eyes out of it.

Its not like the 1 year rule is written on a piece of paper and occasionally someone at VF refers to it and says "Oh, I must go and delete any that are over 1 year old"... it's a computer with rules set up doing it - and hence when the rule is triggered, the deletion gets done - bang on the dot. I'm not sure that compassion is a programmable command, but I could be wrong. ;-)

freitasm

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#417427 15-Dec-2010 08:03

greengeek: Most people remember things like that in relation to why they bought the phone etc in the first place. eg: the phone may have been a birthday gift, xmas gift etc,

But as soon as he ordered the business cards and other material with that phone number he could have checked, "just in case", and acted then. It should be pretty normal for checks to be done, "just in case". Part of a process really.

I think the most important thing out of all this is a lesson, "just in case".

NonprayingMantis

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#417451 15-Dec-2010 09:00

greengeek:
A similar thing happened to me once, when I remembered in December that my emergency (glovebox) phone had been bought at xmas and the credit was due to expire. That is what prompted me to buy a prepay topup. Unfortunately Vodafone had a billing centre problem at the time and the credit was not applied. I found out a couple of weeks later (when I needed to use the phone) that the sim had now been disabled and the number was "unrecoverable".

It was a number that I really wanted to keep because it made an excellent "wordfind". Too bad. I had lost the number,

if your phone is an 'emergency glovebox phone', why do you even slightly care what number is on it?

oxnsox

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#417477 15-Dec-2010 09:47

You don't print Business cards with your
'Emergency glovebox phone number on them'

oxnsox

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#417492 15-Dec-2010 10:09

If you're running a business (any business) you have procedures... and maybe even policies that dictate these.

As the business gets larger, with more staff and customers, these become both more important and more rigid. Why? Because the systems you've put in place in your business dictate the processes.

And here we're dealing with companies (Telcos) that must manage customer and client databases, billing systems, and link it all back to a simple SIM card thats worth a dollar or so. They have a lot of complex back office systems and people and associated enterprises that enable them to manage and manipulate all this.... From the customer end its a simple transaction for us to pickup (buy) a SIM and stick in a handset, but there's almost unfathomable complexity in how the use of that MSISDN is managed across a variety of networks, billing and usage channels. SO to make it most workable there's a bunch of T&C's associated with owning the SIM, and essentially these T&C's replicate the rules in the systems that manage the MSISDN. They reflect the way the various softwares deal with it and how the vendor CSRs should respond.

But hey you ended up being lucky and managing to get people outside these organizations to dig beyond their desktop toolbox and operate levers and maybe call in favours so that others could dive deeper into the systems and drag things back to save you the wasted expense of of your un-used letterhead.

I say well done to those guys (and gals?), you certainly got you $20 worth.

graemeh

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#417493 15-Dec-2010 10:09

SaltyNZ: The number pool is very expensive to maintain, by contrast, especially in terms of licensing costs. Mobile network manufacturers might sell, say, a few dozen network elements a year. Thus, economies of scale in no way apply.

Don't forget to mention that the mobile network manufacturer pricing model typically includes a price per block of numbers, so a number not being used doesn't just involve a minimal storage cost but a very real (and large) licensing cost paid to your supplier :)

keewee01

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#417519 15-Dec-2010 10:46

Sorry, OT, but relates to a discussion being had in this thread - It would be interesting to know just how much of each telco's number range is in use. 2degrees won't be huge (yet), but the other two I'm betting will be around 60%+ as it is a lot more than just mobile phones using numbers in those ranges.

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