Fed Up with Orcon email server being blacklisted

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Fed Up with Orcon email server being blacklisted

ADKM

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#173452 24-May-2015 01:27

I'm sick and tired of getting this message (and variations of it) emailing from Orcon to TalkTalk ISP in the UK

<<< 554 Your access to this mail system has been rejected due to the sending MTA's poor reputation. If you believe that this failure is in error, please contact the intended recipient via alternate means.

Orcon, wake your ideas up. I'm paying you #120 a month.

Cheers - Kirk

gehenna

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#1310654 24-May-2015 01:57

Not really Orcon's fault. The recipient server needs to use a less zealous blacklist service. Regardless it's a consumer email service shared among many customers over which Orcon can't really control the user behavior. If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.

ADKM

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#1310655 24-May-2015 02:06

Orcon *are* my dedicated email provider. If they can't deliver the goods they should stop providing the service.
No excuses. You take my money, you deliver the goods. Seems fair enough to me.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#1310666 24-May-2015 07:47

gehenna: If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.

The only thing less professional than using your ISPs mail server is using one of these companies for your e-mail. Neither are dedicated e-mail providers, and Google already has far too much information about everyone. Last I checked, Google also had a non-compliant IMAP system.

ADKM:

You haven't mentioned how you are sending e-mail. Are you using a client or Webmail? Are you a single user, or is this business e-mail?

Unfortunately there is not much which can be done about remote servers which don't play by the rules (notable RFC 821 violations etc.), and use of blacklists, but there are ways to work around some issues, and inexpensive options you may wish to consider to assist with mail delivery, depending on your requirements and technical skills.

timmmay

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#1310669 24-May-2015 08:22

I move a lot of small businesses to gmail, sending using their own domains. If you need information or help drop me a message.

deadlyllama

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#1310674 24-May-2015 09:16

gehenna: Not really Orcon's fault. The recipient server needs to use a less zealous blacklist service. Regardless it's a consumer email service shared among many customers over which Orcon can't really control the user behavior. If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.

Running an internet-facing mail service these days is hard and requires significant resources. You need to maintain your outbound MTAs reputation (and therefore, customer sources of spam), and deal with inbound spam. If you don't, people start rejecting your mail.

I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam. But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free). My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons. One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything. Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.

freitasm

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#1310675 24-May-2015 09:18

SirHumphreyAppleby:
gehenna: If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.

The only thing less professional than using your ISPs mail server is using one of these companies for your e-mail. Neither are dedicated e-mail providers, and Google already has far too much information about everyone. Last I checked, Google also had a non-compliant IMAP system.

I think you are confusing matters here. Using an ISP email service for personal messages is ok, providing you realise it's open to everyone in the service and there are bad apples. And those bad apples will spoil for everyone, regardless of how much effort an ISP put into that.

Now, using an ISP address for professional messages (or even Gmail, Yahoo) looks unprofessional. However Office 365 and Google Apps are very different from using Gmail, Yahoo and other services because with Office 365 and Google Apps you will be using your own domain, those services are correctly configured (and you can go the extra mile by configuring correct DNS information in your own domain).

Don't like how Google Apps implement IMAP? No problem, you can select another provider. Rather use Exchange/ActiveSync? Sure, go Office 365 or again select another provider.

This is the beauty of not using your ISP's own email: it's a lot better.

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freitasm

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#1310676 24-May-2015 09:23

deadlyllama: I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam. But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free). My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons. One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything. Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.

Email is a two way affair. You might have the best email server configuration but if the other side stuff up then your messages will be lost. Orcon can configure whatever they want, if the other side incorrectly identify spam, or if the other side has too strict rules... Too bad for the sender.

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deadlyllama

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#1311075 25-May-2015 09:36

freitasm:
deadlyllama: I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam. But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free). My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons. One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything. Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.

Email is a two way affair. You might have the best email server configuration but if the other side stuff up then your messages will be lost. Orcon can configure whatever they want, if the other side incorrectly identify spam, or if the other side has too strict rules... Too bad for the sender.

It's not just your mail server configuration. You need to keep a lid on spammers using your outbound mail servers, or your mailservers' reputation will take a nosedive and other people's mail servers (like the TalkTalk one mentioned by the OP) will start rejecting mail from yours. This is tricky when you are an ISP, and your customers get infected by viruses/botnets/etc which start using the ISP server to relay spam -- this is a really good reason to require SMTP authentication.

It's also tricky when your customers are dumb and send spam themselves...

Nebbie

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#1311453 25-May-2015 17:15

The problem with ISP email is 100,000's of people use the same MTA, due to the high numbers of users the higher the chance their sender MTA will be blocked. One of the biggest problems is users set either simple passwords or use the same password to login sites as their ISP email password. Due to this ISP's Email servers often have low reputation, and your ISP is not Google so they cant offer a Google like service.

My Advice if you want control setup your own MTA off your internet connection get a static IP then you have control over who connects and your reputation.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Nebukadnessar

mattwnz

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#1311467 25-May-2015 17:34

timmmay: I move a lot of small businesses to gmail, sending using their own domains. If you need information or help drop me a message.

Gmail servers also gets blacklisted. I tried to email a NZ company today and it bounced back to say that gmails IP had a low reputation and was bounced back.

timmmay

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#1311479 25-May-2015 17:43

Nebbie: The problem with ISP email is 100,000's of people use the same MTA, due to the high numbers of users the higher the chance their sender MTA will be blocked. One of the biggest problems is users set either simple passwords or use the same password to login sites as their ISP email password. Due to this ISP's Email servers often have low reputation, and your ISP is not Google so they cant offer a Google like service. My Advice if you want control setup your own MTA off your internet connection get a static IP then you have control over who connects and your reputation.

Then you have to deal with spam yourself, keeping yourself off blacklists, etc. Gmail/Fastmail are easier.

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ADKM

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#1311682 25-May-2015 22:37

Another bounced one today was replying to one from the Ministry of Primary industies...

timmmay

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#1311751 26-May-2015 07:42

It's obviously not meeting your needs. Move to a different email provider. If you need to move a domain it's not difficult, but I do that for customers fairly regularly. If you have your own domain Zoho Mail I think is free, Gmail is US$5/month, fastmail is in between.