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bfginger
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  #588002 28-Feb-2012 20:13
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Behodar:
bfginger: It looks like the left of the top scanline of Prime on the Kordia mux is missing on Freeview|HD. Could this broadcasting error please be fixed?

I'm not seeing this here (Te Aroha transmitter) so which are you on?


Waiatarua. Overscan will hide it and good deinterlacing may sometimes obscure it. About 3/5ths of the way across of the top scanline is blacked out.

The thought comes to me now that this might be a blanket attempt to hide the white striped info lines at the top left that infests some content instead of dealing with it on a case by case basis. Maori television is really bad with that problem.

But I've seen movie DVDs authored with the same defect in them so it might not be intentional. It's better than the white stripes.



Brunzy
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  #588012 28-Feb-2012 20:44
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bfginger:
Behodar:
bfginger: It looks like the left of the top scanline of Prime on the Kordia mux is missing on Freeview|HD. Could this broadcasting error please be fixed?

I'm not seeing this here (Te Aroha transmitter) so which are you on?


Waiatarua. Overscan will hide it and good deinterlacing may sometimes obscure it. About 3/5ths of the way across of the top scanline is blacked out.

The thought comes to me now that this might be a blanket attempt to hide the white striped info lines at the top left that infests some content

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widescreen_signaling your mysterious lines ;-)

instead of dealing with it on a case by case basis. Maori television is really bad with that problem.

But I've seen movie DVDs authored with the same defect in them so it might not be intentional. It's better than the white stripes.

freitasm

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  #588835 1-Mar-2012 13:36
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I'll lock this discussion now and send the questions to Freeview. I will unlock this thread when the answers come back, so we can discuss.





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freitasm

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  #600662 27-Mar-2012 12:29
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Folks, I've just received all the answers, and will post later today when back from lunch!

There are a couple of Freeview folks coming to our Geekzone Freeview Pizza in AKL this weekend, I'm sure some of you there will ask some though questions and give some good feedback too.

 




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freitasm

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  #600839 27-Mar-2012 17:00
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The answers to our Freeview questions:
  • Why are some channels not being carried in Freeview|HD expansion areas where JDA supply the service?
Freeview – It’s up to the individual broadcasters to negotiate the transmission agreements with Kordia and JDA. At this stage those broadcasters that are on all Kordia sites but not JDA areas(Parliament, GeorgeFM and Radio New Zealand ) don’t think they will be able to generate enough incremental revenue to be able to pay the additional transmission fees.
  • When can Whangaparoa expect DVB-T coverage on the northern side (StanmoreBay,ArmyBayetc) of thePeninsula? Pretty much, what are your plans for expanding DVB-T coverage for NZ over this year ?
Freeview – we would like 100% Freeview|HD coverage but someone has to pay the additional capital and transmission cost for those areas. So either the Government or broadcasters would have to fund it and at the moment they are saying that if you are outside the 87% of population that are covered then you need to get Freeview satellite to continue getting free to air television.
  • What are your plans for allowing Freeview certified devices to record HD programs unencrypted, to facilitate format/device shifting and streaming?
Freeview – the production houses and movie studio’s make those rules and they don’t want to allow viewers to make unencrypted copies of High definition content which can then be uploaded or distributed over the internet by the viewer. We would guess that position is unlikely to change anytime soon.
  • Has there been any consideration to seek capacity on Optus D3 to offer HD channels to NZ (on the understanding users will need a dual lnb)
Freeview – yes of course but with the considerable investment made to get HD to 87% of the population it’s unlikely that any further capacity would be paid for by the broadcasters – they wouldn’t be able to afford to pay twice for high definition broadcast i.e. both terrestrial and satellite platforms. Of course Sky could always unencrypt the Free to air HD signals off the satellite which would make more sense given there is limited capacity and that they control any spare capacity on the satellite. .
  • Is there any movement in putting up more radio stations onto the Freeview platform?
Freeview - yes we continue to have discussions with TRN and Radioworks plus some independent stations. The best way to make this happen is for the listeners to campaign the radio channels to get onto Freeview. In the UK more people listen to radio through Freeview than over the internet.
  • Is it true that new channels cannot be added to the satellite service because there is no room on the satellite? If so, and all future channels will only be available via terrestrial freeview, shouldn't this have been explained to consumers so that they can be aware of the limitation before purchasing a satellite receiver?
Freeview - there’s always room on satellite its just what is economic for broadcasters and viewers. It costs considerably more to have a channel on satellite rather than on the Freeview terrestrial platform. Content and technology options are always changing and you are already seeing more content available direct to the TV via the internet. So there will always be something better in the future.
  • With UFB becoming available in areas soon, any plans in the works to offer freeview channels over fibre?
Freeview – not likely to be existing Freeview channels but something like Connect TV which has just launched in Britain on Freeview is probably more likely ie adding to the broadcast content with content via UFB http://www.connect-tv.tv/
  • Are you able to tell us if there are any plans to launch a second Kordia terrestrial mux to maintain bitrates for new channels?
Freeview – there is space in the spectrum plan for 9 or 10 sets of terrestrial licenses so plenty of capacity but who owns them will determine what is available for channels on Freeview in the future. Sky have rights to 4 of those licenses , the TAB 1 and Kordia, TVWorks and TVNZ are already using 1 each. So that leaves 2 still to be allocated . MED have yet to decide who will have the rights to buy further capacity on those licenses but obviously Freeview would suggest that any content on those platforms is Free to air and available to the Freeview platform
  • Are there any televisions with Freeview Satellite receivers built-in coming?
Freeview – none of the larger manufactures have plans to manufacture Freeview approved devices , built and tested for the New Zealand market , with DTH receivers built in as they don’t make them for other markets.
  • With analogue connectors being phased out, at what point will Freeview mandate that all newly approved Freeview Satellite receivers not be without an HDMI output?
Freeview – This may be reviewed in the future but at present there are many TVs that will only support composite connections and these are the ones that will need to Go Digital. There are a range of products that already include HDMI.
  • People have complained that some apartment blocks are still refusing to support the availability of UHF Freeview reception. There is a perception that good tenants have Sky and Freeview is for the riff raff. Has or will Freeview develop a strategy to address this problem?
Freeview – we haven’t heard of that before and sounds like the apartment owners prefer pay TV so they can charge the tenants a connection fee. The Going digital team have been contacting all body corporates to ensure they are aware of the changes they need to make. If you have names of apartments that are doing this please forward to us at freeviewadmin@freeviewnz.tv In saying that many apartment owners will be able to use a small indoor UHF aerial to pick up Freeview|HD signals so no need to pay the body corporate to hook up to their system.
  • The Freeview Set Up guides instruct to use composite when HDMI is not present. Would it be possible to add instructions on how to use component where available when HDMI isn't? I ask because the quality from composite is so bad that it makes Freeview almost look more like VHS than crystal clear digital quality on flat panel TVs, and many Freeview receivers are without HDMI.
Freeview – Thanks for the feedback and will see if we can fit it in. We used to have component instructions but the feedback was that most TV’s with component also have HDMI in which case we would recommend HDMI and the rest are older sets only have composite.
  • Everybody I know personally has Sky TV, with their television left not plugged into the aerial even if they have Sky in SD. Freeview marketing has portrayed Freeview as a cheap alternative to Sky TV for those too poor to afford a Sky subscription. Will Freeview advertising start to encourage people to plug-in their TV with Freeview|HD built-in even if they have Sky?
Freeview – Yes 50% of New Zealand homes pay on average $87 a month to watch TV through Sky. The other 50% have Freeview or are still on analogue. At the moment we are concentrating on the 17% of homes that still have analogue and getting them to change to free digital TV before the Government switch off their analogue signal. In the future we may well start promoting the better picture quality of the Freeview|HD service to sky subscribers.
  • The Freeview FAQ says of "MyFreeview via satellite" that "You can even record in high definition!". Isn't this incorrect?
Freeview – yes it is and we have changed that. Thanks for spotting that.
  • The Freeview Code of Practice states "It is important that the service is technically sound to avoid the viewer perception that the service offering from Freeview is substandard.". But TV One keeps running its schedule in the evenings so badly out of synch with the Freeview EPG that MyFreeview recordings may be cut off at the end unless a 10 minute extension is made for that recording. Can broadcasters be sanctioned for providing a unreliable service?
Freeview – We haven’t had that feedback before. Sometimes shows do run late but not by more than a few minutes so we are a little surprised that you are experiencing this on a regular basis. Could you please forward a list of shows and days and we will investigate with TVNZ. Thanks
  • The Freeview FAQ makes a distinction between Freeview Approved devices and "Freeview compatible devices". Do "Freeview compatible devices" still carry the Freeview logo?
Freeview – TiVo, Telstra T-Box and Sony PlayTV plus some others in development are all Freeview compatible products. As part of that agreement they agree to certain minimum technical standards and channel numbering as well as paying a fee for licensing the Freeview logo to use in conjunction with promoting their product. This does not include putting the Freeview logo on the product unlike Freeview approved products which do have the Freeview logo.
  • When will we start to see 3D content broadcast? Have any tests been done so far?
Freeview – Globally there aren’t any regular Free to air 3D broadcasts happening and it would appear that the focus is now turning to connected devices to provide additional content to viewers rather than 3D which uses significantly more bandwidth so costs the broadcasters a lot more to transmit than SD or HD services.
  • Because there is one more frequency on the Platform can you confirm to me that this is usable to any broadcaster.
Freeview – Do you mean channel? There are currently 6-7 unused sets of spectrum licences on DTT. Sky have rights to 4 of those, NZRB have rights to 1 and the 2 others have yet to be allocated by MED. So Freeview is an open access platform and all a broadcaster has to do is negotiate spectrum and transmission with a provider, apply to Freeview for a channel number and go through the independent financial audit to make sure they can pay their bills and then get final approval. Whole process can take as little as 4 weeks from initial application.
  • I'm currently trying to get my head around the EPG listing issue with PlayStation PS3 PlayTV and from what I understand it comes from the lack of EIT data being transmitted. I can't quite understand why when Freeview has access to all the EPG data, and clearly has the facility to transmit EIT data, that they don't do it? This would seem as unnecessary way to reduce the user experience and choice of freeview equipment, which cannot be conclusive to encouraging up-take?
Freeview – the broadcasters in New Zealand have copyright on all the programme listings. So Freeview compatible products like PlayTv, Tivo and the Telstra T box negotiate commercial terms with each broadcaster for their listings.
  • Oh yeah, my other one is how concerned are Freeview about their brand and association to dodgy hardware? The original Zinwells (that somehow magically got the jump on every other manufacturer...) are all dying and my JC Matthews unit is a heap of poorly coded crap, but all have freeviews logo slapped on the front of it. The end user doesn't necessarily associate these problems with the brand and often leaves with a poor taste of 'freeview' So my question is about the certification process and how much checking freeview actually does about how the hardware/software perform etc.
Freeview - To get a product Freeview approved manufactures/distributors must get their products tested by DTG www.dtg.co.uk in Britain or DTV labs www.digitaltv-labs.com in Hong Kong. The testing takes about 10 days for a receiver or TV and about 12 days for a digital recorder. The testing costs each manufacture about NZD$12000 depending on which product they are testing and Freeview receives no revenue from this process.
  • Why do recordings set via the EPG sometimes record TV3+1 instead of TV3? And is there any way to prevent it?
Freeview – this is called an alternate instance recording and is done if the available tuners are busy at the originally scheduled time. Some programmes have other repeats during the week and the first of these may be selected if it can’t be recorded on its first run too.
  • The Freeview coverage checker currently doesn't provide the same information as the PDF maps. For example, http://www.freeviewnz.tv/userfiles/pdfs/tauranga.pdf shows most of Whakatane "in the green" (and it works perfectly) but the address-based checker says that HD is unlikely to work. Can these discrepancies be fixed to avoid more misinformation?
Freeview – the coverage check tool actually uses the pdf maps to supply the result. Can you please supply some addresses for us to investigate. thanks
  • And are freeview intending to offer a better EPG option, in line with the competitors who allow searching by keyword, show channels adjacent side by side ish (allows you to see the next 4 hours of all channels very quickly etc), preloads data so it is quick and responsive, and looks better on a HDTV set?
Freeview – we will be upgrading our EPG to HD very shortly but it will have similar functionality. For FTA channels it has proved very popular to be able to view an entire evening of one channel on the screen at the same time.
  • Any news on what (if anything) will replace TVNZ7? Is it up to TVNZ to provide the replacement or is that channel allocation open to anyone?
Freeview – we checked with TVNZ and they have nothing confirmed and yes its upto them what they do with the capacity.
  • Why was Optus D1 the choice of Freeview Satellite at the time? by 2015 25 channels will perhaps be on Freeview HD while those on satellite will be limited to 14 same old channels.
Freeview – to have the same satellite choice as Sky enables easy and cheap installation and the option of multiple devices running within the same household.
  • When will the forum website be posted as mentioned on Facebook and when will you contact those who signed up to help
Freeview – Hopefully next month and yes we will – thanks for helping out.
  • Can you tell us exactly what Freeview NZ is, and isn't, responsible for?
Freeview – Freeview is responsible for 2 key areas on behalf of the shareholders and general service providers. Firstly we manage the day to day running of the platform. So that’s the development and maintenance of the technical specifications and testing of products for free to air digital broadcasting, the generation and supply of the EPG(electronic programme guide) and SI (service information) as well as facilitating relationships between manufacturers of Freeview products and retailers. We also mange the relationship with the Government for the digital switch over process , including restacking of the spectrum. And secondly we promote the brand and market the benefits of Free digital television to all New Zealanders’. So what we don’t so is any content or transmission – the broadcasters and transmission providers are solely responsible for this.
  • Will ChoiceTV be broadcasting on the Freeview satellite service?
Freeview – At this stage Choice have informed us that they will only be broadcasting on the Freeview|HD service.
  • Is digital teletext coming to Freeview?
Freeview – with the progression of the web, tablets and smartphones it’s unlikely one of our broadcasters would spend money developing a digitext application however the MHEG middleware in Freeview approved products could well be used for a video on demand service.
  • When will the fourth multiplex become active?
Freeview – Hopefully sometime soon. MED are responsible for this so waiting for them to allocate the 4th national mux.
  • I've been reading that a standard feature of Freeview in the UK and Aus is the ability to set EPG reminders that pop up just before the programme is about to start. I've never heard of that here in NZ. Does any receiver box offer this feature at the moment? I assume there's nothing about the NZ EPG that would prevent its operation?
Freeview – this functionality may be reviewed in the future however it has not proved that popular in other markets as recorders are becoming more prevalent so people are just setting the shows to record.
  • It looks like the left of the top scanline of Prime on the Kordia mux is missing on Freeview|HD. Could this broadcasting error please be fixed?
Freeview – we weren’t aware of that and sounds like an issue that Prime need to sort out so will pass that onto them.
  • Can you tell us more on how the satellite platform is run? Where is the uplink centre for Freeview and does Optus HQ in Australia manage the channels on their bird what are the roles?
Freeview – Kordia run the uplink facility from Wellington for our broadcasters.




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Behodar
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  #600841 27-Mar-2012 17:14
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freitasm: The Freeview coverage checker currently doesn't provide the same information as the PDF maps. For example, http://www.freeviewnz.tv/userfiles/pdfs/tauranga.pdf shows most of Whakatane "in the green" (and it works perfectly) but the address-based checker says that HD is unlikely to work. Can these discrepancies be fixed to avoid more misinformation?
Freeview – the coverage check tool actually uses the pdf maps to supply the result. Can you please supply some addresses for us to investigate. thanks

Does Freeview read this thread or is there another way that I should provide the requested information?

In any case, 10 Pouwhare St and 10A Waiewe St, Whakatane, both have flawless reception but are reported as "unlikely" by the coverage checker.

freitasm

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  #600842 27-Mar-2012 17:19
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I know they read this thread, and I know they are planning to come to the pizza. If anyone is coming there may be a chance to ask questions there. Otherwise I suggest you contact them via their page for specific stuff.





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xarqi
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  #602333 30-Mar-2012 09:23
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Freeview Pizza:
"We coordinate dish sizes among pizzerias, and dictate the order on the menus, but we don't have any control at all over toppings, quality, or delivery."

JimmyH
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  #607046 9-Apr-2012 14:12
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Freeview – the production houses and movie studio’s make those rules and they don’t want to allow viewers to make unencrypted copies of High definition content which can then be uploaded or distributed over the internet by the viewer. We would guess that position is unlikely to change anytime soon.

[....]

Freeview – TiVo, Telstra T-Box and Sony PlayTV plus some others in development are all Freeview compatible products. As part of that agreement they agree to certain minimum technical standards and channel numbering as well as paying a fee for licensing the Freeview logo to use in conjunction with promoting their product. This does not include putting the Freeview logo on the product unlike Freeview approved products which do have the Freeview logo.




So if I am reading these answers correctly, given the availability of the HNP for Tivo which HD recordings be transferred:

  • Freeview certified products adhere to FV's technical standards, work, have the Freeview logo on them, and must be deliberately crippled to prevent the transfer of HD recordings. Crippling is unlikely to be removed in the future.
  • Freeview compatible products also adhere to FV's technical standards, work, don't have the Freeview logo on them, and aren't required to be crippled
I think my future purchase decisions, and advice to a couple of relatives to still need to switch to digital, just became pretty unambiguous - avoid FV certified and buy FV compatible, making sure to get an uncrippled unit.

tangerz
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  #613135 22-Apr-2012 13:09
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freitasm:
  • Are there any televisions with Freeview Satellite receivers built-in coming?
Freeview – none of the larger manufactures have plans to manufacture Freeview approved devices , built and tested for the New Zealand market , with DTH receivers built in as they don’t make them for other markets.




Not true! Looking at the new plasmas from Panasonic in the UK they have both a Freeview HD (terrestrial) tuner and a Freesat HD (satellite) tuner.

openmedia
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  #613247 22-Apr-2012 17:57
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tangerz:
freitasm:
  • Are there any televisions with Freeview Satellite receivers built-in coming?
Freeview – none of the larger manufactures have plans to manufacture Freeview approved devices , built and tested for the New Zealand market , with DTH receivers built in as they don’t make them for other markets.




Not true! Looking at the new plasmas from Panasonic in the UK they have both a Freeview HD (terrestrial) tuner and a Freesat HD (satellite) tuner.


Correct they are built for Freeview HD and Freesat HD in the UK. They haven't been certified for the NZ services. Panasonic usually only brings in the Terrestrial tuner models.

The really sad part is that these sets would probably work perfectly well here with no modifications.




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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