Freeview Satellite decoder recording

Forums › Freeview (DVB-T/DVB-S) › Freeview Satellite decoder recording - help please

OnceBitten

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# 249323 6-May-2019 09:59

Ok, so wife and I have decided to take the plunge and ditch Sky TV and go to Freeview.... We've not figured out how she will be able to watch Eastenders yet, but we will worry about that later. (I posted about that in an earlier thread)

I've been looking online at different freeview decoders and it is very confusing with all the different brands / types out there

This is what we need from a Freeview decoder:-

1) Has to be able to connect to Sky dish - this is a MUST

2) has to be able to record programs easily (prefer series link)

3) we need to be able to watch 1 program and record another at the same time

4) has to have HDMI connection to connect to our home theatre receiver / amp

5) has to be easy to use so my wife can use it and not mess it up (hopefully she won't read this LOL)

if it has wifi that would be a plus but we have google Chromecast connected to the TV already

I've found this one on Trade me https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=2050230075 - does anyone know if it is a good brand / unit that will do everything we need?

also I was in Noel Leeming last week and the salesman tried to sell me this https://www.noelleeming.co.nz/shop/televisions/accessories/freeview/dishtv-dual-tuner-freeview-recorder-with-1tb-hdd/prod169667.html but the reviews are not good..... it looks like it has more features than what we need - plus it's over $500!

any advice would be helpful

thanks in advance

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# 2231454 6-May-2019 10:25

To divert your topic, you already have a chromecast....have you thought about just using on demand instead? Would your internet support it?

Have a look at the offerings and see if everything you record exists on there, you may not need a recording box any more.

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OnceBitten

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# 2231484 6-May-2019 10:57

davidcole:

To divert your topic, you already have a chromecast....have you thought about just using on demand instead? Would your internet support it?

Have a look at the offerings and see if everything you record exists on there, you may not need a recording box any more.

thanks - but we just want to be able to watch normal live TV like channels 1, 2 and 3...etc...

sure we could probably watch the News or something on demand if we miss watching it at 6pm, but we need to be able to watch normal live TV

davidcole

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# 2231487 6-May-2019 11:00

OnceBitten:

davidcole:

To divert your topic, you already have a chromecast....have you thought about just using on demand instead? Would your internet support it?

Have a look at the offerings and see if everything you record exists on there, you may not need a recording box any more.

thanks - but we just want to be able to watch normal live TV like channels 1, 2 and 3...etc...

sure we could probably watch the News or something on demand if we miss watching it at 6pm, but we need to be able to watch normal live TV

Ahh I missed that component, so you need a freeview decoder box to watch tv, there's no DVB-T (UHF) coverage in your location? And your tv is not one of these ones that can decode both satelite and uhf?

So the ondemand bit is a replacement for recording (which will make your decoder choosing easier). But there are some that will give you the full live tv + recording capability.

OnceBitten

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# 2231494 6-May-2019 11:05

We have UHF aerial in the Bedroom and have a freeview box there with an older Samsung TV (10-12 yrs old?) and in the lounge we only have sky dish connection and we have a Panasonic 42" LED TV that's 2012 model but only has UHF aerial connection on the back.

We don't intend replacing the TV in the lounge as it works fine and has good picture

Brunzy

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# 2231558 6-May-2019 12:11

In that case you would be better to send the UHF to the lounge and use the built in Freeview. Then if you like buy a standard STBox that can record to USB, cheaper but more importantly , much better quality and also more flexible , ie watch whatever on the Tv , record whatever you like on the box

trig42

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# 2231561 6-May-2019 12:29

I would recommend getting the UHF signal from the bedroom to the lounge as well. The picture will be so much better.

It also gives you more choice on an STB should you still require one.

We did the same as you about 3 years ago (got rid of Sky) and I got a recorder (Panasonic). I can't remember now when the last time I recorded anything was. I wither watch on a +1 channel, or OnDemand.

OnceBitten

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# 2231563 6-May-2019 12:35

trig42:

I would recommend getting the UHF signal from the bedroom to the lounge as well. The picture will be so much better.

It also gives you more choice on an STB should you still require one.

We did the same as you about 3 years ago (got rid of Sky) and I got a recorder (Panasonic). I can't remember now when the last time I recorded anything was. I wither watch on a +1 channel, or OnDemand.

thanks - the UHF aerial connector is not the greatest, because when I set it up with the freeview recorder box thing and the TV, it wouldn't work properly if I used a HDMI cable to connect the Freeview to the TV, so I'm using RCA leads and it works but It doesn't get Duke or Edge TV channel (says no signal), so if I run a splitter from that to the lounge I'll probably get the same problems

fe31nz

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# 2232041 6-May-2019 22:52

OnceBitten:

thanks - the UHF aerial connector is not the greatest, because when I set it up with the freeview recorder box thing and the TV, it wouldn't work properly if I used a HDMI cable to connect the Freeview to the TV, so I'm using RCA leads and it works but It doesn't get Duke or Edge TV channel (says no signal), so if I run a splitter from that to the lounge I'll probably get the same problems

Something does not make sense there. I presume you are able to get TVNZ 1 and TVNZ 2 otherwise you would have mentioned that. Duke is broadcast on the same frequency (the same multiplex) as all the other TVNZ channels. If you can receive them, you must be able to receive DUKE also. By definition of how digital TV works - channels on a multiplex are just data packets with tags saying what channel they belong to. All the packets for all the channels on one multiplex are "multiplexed" together - they are mixed in with each other in one big stream of packets. So if you can receive the packets for one channel, you must be able to receive the packets for all the channels on that multiplex. Similarly, The Edge TV is broadcast on the same multiplex as Three, so if you can receive Three, you must be able to receive The Edge TV. So the only reason I can think of for the TV not getting those channels is that Freeview box is putting out a signal on its RCA leads (Is that component or composite inputs to the TV?) that the TV is not capable of receiving - too low definition maybe. And if that is the case, the Freeview box really should be able to upscale it to something the TV can handle, with the right settings. But you really need to fix whatever problem there is getting an HDMI connection between the Freeview box and that TV. Converting the signal to analogue and then back to digital in the TV is going to give you a pretty bad picture.

In the lounge, you would be putting the aerial signal directly into the TV, so no, you will not get the same problems at all. What may happen is that splitting the signal (which sends a little less than half the signal level to each destination), and then the extra signal losses over the cable to the lounge, could reduce the signal level at the lounge TV to the point where it will not receive some or all multiplexes. If so, then the usual fix for that is to use an amplifier splitter instead of a passive splitter.

OnceBitten

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# 2232127 7-May-2019 09:05

fe31nz:

Something does not make sense there. I presume you are able to get TVNZ 1 and TVNZ 2 otherwise you would have mentioned that. Duke is broadcast on the same frequency (the same multiplex) as all the other TVNZ channels. If you can receive them, you must be able to receive DUKE also. By definition of how digital TV works - channels on a multiplex are just data packets with tags saying what channel they belong to. All the packets for all the channels on one multiplex are "multiplexed" together - they are mixed in with each other in one big stream of packets. So if you can receive the packets for one channel, you must be able to receive the packets for all the channels on that multiplex. Similarly, The Edge TV is broadcast on the same multiplex as Three, so if you can receive Three, you must be able to receive The Edge TV. So the only reason I can think of for the TV not getting those channels is that Freeview box is putting out a signal on its RCA leads (Is that component or composite inputs to the TV?) that the TV is not capable of receiving - too low definition maybe. And if that is the case, the Freeview box really should be able to upscale it to something the TV can handle, with the right settings. But you really need to fix whatever problem there is getting an HDMI connection between the Freeview box and that TV. Converting the signal to analogue and then back to digital in the TV is going to give you a pretty bad picture.

In the lounge, you would be putting the aerial signal directly into the TV, so no, you will not get the same problems at all. What may happen is that splitting the signal (which sends a little less than half the signal level to each destination), and then the extra signal losses over the cable to the lounge, could reduce the signal level at the lounge TV to the point where it will not receive some or all multiplexes. If so, then the usual fix for that is to use an amplifier splitter instead of a passive splitter.

thanks for that - the TV in the bedroom is about 10-12 years old and that may be part of the problem - I have a cable that can connect our MacBook to the HDMI and it worked on the TV in the lounge (this was before I got chromecast) but when I tried it on the older Samsung TV in the bedroom it said something like 'format not supported'.....

All I remember was when I connected the freeview up in the bedroom using the HDMI cable it would work but on some channels (particularly TV3) it was all pixilated and not good, but with the RCA cables it does work, but with The Edge and Duke channels it just says 'no signal'.....

ideally I'd like to bring the freeview unit into the lounge and connect to the TV there and then run a splitter cable to the bedroom - but that means we'd probably have to upgrade the TV in the bedroom to a freeview ready one or buy a cheap freeview unit to run with the TV (wife doesn't really want to buy a new TV if we don't have to)

You mention an 'amplifier splitter' - do you need to plug this into power for it to work?

also in a previous post I mentioned that the signal is already split - we have an aerial on the roof and the cable has a splitter on it and one cable goes to the neighbours place and the other to our place... (this was done years ago before we bought it)

All I really want is to be able to watch freeview TV in both the lounge and the bedroom - then figure out how my wife can watch Eastenders for free - without having to get a VPN or anything

TENKAN

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# 2232171 7-May-2019 10:29

Ok so this is a way forward for you, real easy.
Just buy another UHF aerial from Bunnings or wherever and plug that directly into the back of your TV or even better buy a modded TiVo Freeview HD recorder.
You can't get EastEnders without a DNS unblocker a good simple one is dns4me, you will also need to download the ITV app to your tv.
Best way is upgrade your tv to a Samsung Smart TV so you can install the ITV app to watch EastEnders and anything else from the UK, like tv4 BBC iPlayer.

tenkan

Rikkitic

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# 2232211 7-May-2019 11:42

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I am not an expert and others here will know more, but I think you are mixing some things up and that is causing confusion. You need to untangle the different things and tackle them one at a time. If I understand your posts correctly, you can receive UHF (DVB-T) in the bedroom, so let's start there. Forget about the other TV for a moment.

You say the TV in the bedroom is old, but has an HDMI input if I have that right. You also say you have had trouble getting a good picture using HDMI. Then you say you get a good picture on some channels using RCA, but not others. Let's untangle this first.

I would start with the antenna itself. You need to make sure it is providing a good signal or nothing else you do will help. First question: Are you in a good reception area for DVB-T? Should you be able to get a good signal there?

The fact that the antenna already has a splitter on it sets off some alarm bells. This is definitely a weak point. If the signal from the antenna is good, it shouldn't cause a problem, but if the signal is already marginal, it could be an issue. If it has been there a long time, there could also be corrosion at the connection points that could degrade the signal. How long are the cable runs? If there is any way to test this, for example, by hooking up a different TV/Freeview box, that would be ideal.

You indicate that you get a good picture on some channels with the RCA cable. Does your receiver have any signal strength and quality indicators? If either or both signal and quality are poor, and you are in a good reception area with nothing in the way, then you have an antenna problem that should be fixed. Otherwise nothing you do will help.

An amplified splitter is not a magic solution. Usually it should only be tried as a last resort. An amplifier amplifies everything, any noise and other crap along with the signal. It usually doesn't help. It can't compensate for something that isn't there in the first place. Forget about this until you know everything else works as it should.

The next thing to look at is the connection to the Freeview box and TV. You say the HDMI connection was poor but some channels work with RCA. If you actually are getting a good picture with RCA then there is a problem with the HDMI, which should give an excellent picture. If the cable is poor quality or the run is very long, that could affect the picture. It is worth trying another one. A bad connector could also be an issue, or even a fault in the Freeview unit. Try replugging and replacing the cable. They aren't expensive.

It doesn't make sense if the RCA cable works on some channels but not others. There must be something else going on here. The RCA cable carries an AV signal, not an RF one. If some channels work, all should. I would check this again.

Older TVs with HDMI may lack HDCP (copy protection) and that may be why it doesn't work with the Mac. That doesn't mean the HDMI is faulty. HDCP can be got around (usually with a Chinese splitter), but I wouldn't worry about that here.

The way to diagnose a problem is to make it simpler by eliminating things. Obviously the tools you have available are limited, but there are some things you can try. One thing I might do, if the TV in the lounge isn't too heavy, would be to move it into the bedroom and hook it up to the Freeview box with the HDMI cable just to see what happens. I am bothered by this statement you made:

"thanks - the UHF aerial connector is not the greatest, because when I set it up with the freeview recorder box thing and the TV, it wouldn't work properly if I used a HDMI cable to connect the Freeview to the TV, so I'm using RCA leads and it works but It doesn't get Duke or Edge TV channel (says no signal), so if I run a splitter from that to the lounge I'll probably get the same problems"

This doesn't really make sense. Is the UHF aerial connector actually damaged in some way? Is it difficult to make a good connection? If it is the cause of a poor signal, then the RCA picture should not be any better on any channel than the HDMI one. There has to be something else going on here. What you really need to know is if the signal coming from the antenna is any good or not. If you are in a good reception area, you might be able to get away with a small indoor antenna, as suggested above. Maybe your outdoor antenna is simply faulty.

Be aware that if you just want to be able to receive live Freeview and you don't care how, it wouldn't be difficult to do it with your Mac and the TV in the lounge. That TV, being newer, ought to work fine with the HDMI from the Mac. If you have a decent Internet connection, you can easily install free Kodi on the Mac (there are other solutions, but I like Kodi) and then install the @Apsattv Freeview IPTV channels on that. This is not difficult to do and it will give you high quality Freeview and some other channels as well.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage

OnceBitten

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# 2232259 7-May-2019 12:52

Rikkitic:

I am not an expert and others here will know more, but I think you are mixing some things up and that is causing confusion. You need to untangle the different things and tackle them one at a time. If I understand your posts correctly, you can receive UHF (DVB-T) in the bedroom, so let's start there. Forget about the other TV for a moment.

You say the TV in the bedroom is old, but has an HDMI input if I have that right. You also say you have had trouble getting a good picture using HDMI. Then you say you get a good picture on some channels using RCA, but not others. Let's untangle this first.

I would start with the antenna itself. You need to make sure it is providing a good signal or nothing else you do will help. First question: Are you in a good reception area for DVB-T? Should you be able to get a good signal there?

The fact that the antenna already has a splitter on it sets off some alarm bells. This is definitely a weak point. If the signal from the antenna is good, it shouldn't cause a problem, but if the signal is already marginal, it could be an issue. If it has been there a long time, there could also be corrosion at the connection points that could degrade the signal. How long are the cable runs? If there is any way to test this, for example, by hooking up a different TV/Freeview box, that would be ideal.

You indicate that you get a good picture on some channels with the RCA cable. Does your receiver have any signal strength and quality indicators? If either or both signal and quality are poor, and you are in a good reception area with nothing in the way, then you have an antenna problem that should be fixed. Otherwise nothing you do will help.

An amplified splitter is not a magic solution. Usually it should only be tried as a last resort. An amplifier amplifies everything, any noise and other crap along with the signal. It usually doesn't help. It can't compensate for something that isn't there in the first place. Forget about this until you know everything else works as it should.

The next thing to look at is the connection to the Freeview box and TV. You say the HDMI connection was poor but some channels work with RCA. If you actually are getting a good picture with RCA then there is a problem with the HDMI, which should give an excellent picture. If the cable is poor quality or the run is very long, that could affect the picture. It is worth trying another one. A bad connector could also be an issue, or even a fault in the Freeview unit. Try replugging and replacing the cable. They aren't expensive.

It doesn't make sense if the RCA cable works on some channels but not others. There must be something else going on here. The RCA cable carries an AV signal, not an RF one. If some channels work, all should. I would check this again.

Older TVs with HDMI may lack HDCP (copy protection) and that may be why it doesn't work with the Mac. That doesn't mean the HDMI is faulty. HDCP can be got around (usually with a Chinese splitter), but I wouldn't worry about that here.

The way to diagnose a problem is to make it simpler by eliminating things. Obviously the tools you have available are limited, but there are some things you can try. One thing I might do, if the TV in the lounge isn't too heavy, would be to move it into the bedroom and hook it up to the Freeview box with the HDMI cable just to see what happens. I am bothered by this statement you made:

"thanks - the UHF aerial connector is not the greatest, because when I set it up with the freeview recorder box thing and the TV, it wouldn't work properly if I used a HDMI cable to connect the Freeview to the TV, so I'm using RCA leads and it works but It doesn't get Duke or Edge TV channel (says no signal), so if I run a splitter from that to the lounge I'll probably get the same problems"

This doesn't really make sense. Is the UHF aerial connector actually damaged in some way? Is it difficult to make a good connection? If it is the cause of a poor signal, then the RCA picture should not be any better on any channel than the HDMI one. There has to be something else going on here. What you really need to know is if the signal coming from the antenna is any good or not. If you are in a good reception area, you might be able to get away with a small indoor antenna, as suggested above. Maybe your outdoor antenna is simply faulty.

Be aware that if you just want to be able to receive live Freeview and you don't care how, it wouldn't be difficult to do it with your Mac and the TV in the lounge. That TV, being newer, ought to work fine with the HDMI from the Mac. If you have a decent Internet connection, you can easily install free Kodi on the Mac (there are other solutions, but I like Kodi) and then install the @Apsattv Freeview IPTV channels on that. This is not difficult to do and it will give you high quality Freeview and some other channels as well.

ok thanks for your detailed reply

I'm going to have to ask what DVB-T is sorry

We are on North Shore Auckland, so shouldn't have a problem with signal issues

The UHF aerial (and sky aerial) comes into the lounge, but our bedroom is behind it, so I drilled through the wall and pushed the UHF cable through. When I first connected it up it wouldn't work at all (no signal) so I took apart the adapter and couldn't see a problem (though it does look very old) and put it back together - I had to do this several times before I could get a signal, but using the HDMI some channels were grainy / pixilated or wouldn't work at all, but most do if I use RCA leads..... I think the problem is with the aerial connector - the wires looked pretty old inside from memory

as for the splitter - we are 2 townhouses joined together and on the roof there is 1 UHF aerial and 1 sky dish and just under the guttering there is the splitter for the UHF and one side goes to the neighbours and the other to us. I've confirmed with the neighbour and he only uses UHF not sky, but it looks like he has another cable going from the roof to his place like we do and I assume that is the one for sky, but I can't see a splitter for that (front of houses is 2 story)

I don't know if our freeview recorder / dvd has any signal strength and quality indicators - but I suppose I can go into settings and have a look

I think it is probably likely that the UHF connector is worn / damaged - I'm happy to try the HDMI again, to see if there is any change in performance

I don't intend using the Macbook in the lounge on the TV to watch Freeview - I just thought the easiest thing to do was to buy a freeview decoder / recorder that can connect to the Sky dish connection, but some have said the picture is much better through UHF

I had thought about buying a smart TV, but if I can get the BBC app on the ipad or MacBook then I can stream it on to the TV with Chromecast - plus wife & I are saving for a holiday in 2020 so buying a new TV is not an option unless the 2012 Panasonic blows up or something!

I might get someone in to look at the UHF aerial connection if need be

thanks again

Spyware

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# 2232263 7-May-2019 13:06

DVB-T = Digital Video Broadcasting - Terrestrial.

RG-6 or even RG-59 fly leads should be made with F type connectors (and Belling Lee adapters as required for connecting to TV) and a crimping tool. I can visualize your 1970 creations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_connector

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector (NEVER use in any other form than an adapter that screws into an F type).

And you may need to pay attention to any coaxial cable you use, older 1970s stranded core type had high loss at VHF let alone UHF. Always use at least RG-6.

Rikkitic

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# 2232266 7-May-2019 13:26

DVB-T is just another (slightly more correct) way of saying UHF.

If you have good contact with your neighbour, ask about their UHF reception. Try to view it if you can. If it is good, then there is no problem with the antenna and probably also not the splitter so you can rule those out.

From what you say, I would guess that there is a problem with your UHF cable. What do you mean when you refer to the 'adapter'? There should just be a plug on the end of the cable. In any case, from your description there is clearly a fault here. UHF is high frequency radio energy. It can behave in peculiar ways. If you have a bad connection, or a possible short, this can degrade the signal without killing it completely. Because of UHF electromagnetic characteristics, it is essential that the connector is properly installed on the cable. This is something I would definitely have checked.

Most Freeview receivers will have signal quality indicators somewhere. There are usually two, one for signal strength and one for quality. They don't have to be at 100%. Usually they aren't, though signal strength may be close. The most important one is signal quality. In my experience this can be as low as 30% or less and still give a good picture, but if it is less than 10%, you have a problem.

Picture quality is better with UHF than satellite, but from what you have been describing, even a good satellite signal will blow you away. If it is working correctly it will be sharp and clear. I don't think you would notice much difference on your TVs. It only really becomes apparent on big home theatre screens. Satellite should be perfectly adequate for your set-up.

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a smart TV at this point. Fixing what you have will make a bigger difference. Smart TVs have the advantage that they may be easier to use for some things, but they tend to go out of date very quickly. A separate Freeview box is usually better because it gives you more flexibility. Official Freeview receivers are usually overpriced and limited in what they can do. You might be better off buying a cheap satellite receiver overseas from Aliexpress, Ebay, or Amazon, or possibly even on Trade Me. The cheapest may be as little as $30. They may have some quirks but they usually work okay. They also come with built-in recording. You just need an external USB drive to plug into it.

Definitely get that UHF connection looked at. Good luck.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage

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# 2232267 7-May-2019 13:31

ok thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_connector

this is what the Sky Areial plug / connection looks like from memory - are you saying we can buy an adapter that can convert this to UHF?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling-Lee_connector

This is what the UHF aerial plug / connector looks like (the one on the left) but I don't think ours is in that good condition

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