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57 posts

Master Geek


Topic # 26475 23-Sep-2008 22:16
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One of the things that really frustrates me (and a number of other users it seems!) is the different aspect ratios transmitted on Freeview HD in New Zealand - not just between channels, but also between shows on the same channel.

On Media Portal I find myself often having to change the 'zoom' mode everytime I change channels, and sometimes when just a new show comes on the same channel - this is very frustrating, and not at all wife friendly!!!

Given that for every source aspect ratio there is one optimal 'zoom' mode for my TV, I was hoping someone knows a way to tell Media Portal that everytime the source aspect ratio is A, then use 'zoom' mode X; aspect ratio B, 'zoom' mode Y... you get the idea.

Anyone?


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 166637 23-Sep-2008 22:25
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I have the same problem as you, however freeview does not actually broadcast different aspect ratios. Freeview is always broadcasting in 16:9 aspect ratio no matter what the aspect ratio of the show is, therefore for shows with 4:3 content the broadcast is still 16:9 with the sides blacked - hence the reason for needing to zoom. It doesn't help if your TV or monitor is not 16:9. It is VERY annoying with a 16:10 monitor, as you end up with black bars on all four sides of the picture...

I don't know whether it's possible for mediaportal (or a plugin) to detect black bars or not... would be nice though.



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Master Geek


  Reply # 166640 23-Sep-2008 22:33
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shermanp: I have the same problem as you, however freeview does not actually broadcast different aspect ratios. Freeview is always broadcasting in 16:9 aspect ratio no matter what the aspect ratio of the show is, therefore for shows with 4:3 content the broadcast is still 16:9 with the sides blacked - hence the reason for needing to zoom. It doesn't help if your TV or monitor is not 16:9. It is VERY annoying with a 16:10 monitor, as you end up with black bars on all four sides of the picture...


If that is true, why does the displayed picture sometimes change dramatically when I switch FreeviewHD channels, and can then be 'fixed up' again by selecting a different 'zoom' mode?

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  Reply # 166648 23-Sep-2008 23:04
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Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.



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Master Geek


  Reply # 166655 23-Sep-2008 23:38
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eXDee: Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.


Yeah, C4 is the biggest pain-in-the-a$$ for this...  So are we saying that there is no auto-config/'fix' for adjusting 'zoom' mode based on source aspect ratio in Media Portal because of the way our Freeview broadcasters choose to manipulate and transmit their shows?

How do the Freeview STB deal with this? Do people with those also see C4 with black borders on all sides?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 166660 24-Sep-2008 07:44
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I leave Media Portal on 'zoom' (not zoom 14:9 or whatever it is)

It crops the wideangle stuff a bit, but it's acceptable, and it fixes all the other channels too. I have to use a little crop along the top also though just to get rid of the broadcast extras.

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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 166661 24-Sep-2008 07:55
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eXDee: Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.


This isn't actually C4's fault (or any of the other broadcasters) - they are receiving content in 4:3 that has already been letterboxed further up the supply chain. As a result you get the double up effect of net result of a postage stamp sized 16:9 image in the middle of the screen.

This is the result of the video originally being shot in 16:9 and then reformatted as 4:3 but with letterboxing rather than centre cut. C4 are then receiving some of their content in this letterboxed 4:3 rather than the original 16:9 that they should be. It also seems to be happening with some NZ TV ad's as well, it would be good if the production companies that produced this material could get with the fact TV is now shot and broadcast in 16:9 - 4:3 is obsolete. Providing you are still shooting with 4:3 safe areas you have nothing to worry about - unfortunately some of these companies aren't and then feel like they need to supply their content in 4:3. It's an issue that annoys me but I know why it happens and there is very little we can do about it.
 
There seem to be plenty ot other people who object to 4:3 material being displayed fulltime in a 16:9 frame which results in bars on the left and right. What broadcasters in NZ are doing by transmitting fulltime 16:9 frames is now pretty much accepted practice around the world. I can't actually get my head around why people find an issue with this, I actually like watching shows in the correct aspect ratio. I don't want 4:3 content stretched horizontally to full up the entire 16:9 frame. Fatovision TV? No thanks.


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  Reply # 166662 24-Sep-2008 07:57
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HTPCnewbie:
eXDee: Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.


Yeah, C4 is the biggest pain-in-the-a$$ for this...  So are we saying that there is no auto-config/'fix' for adjusting 'zoom' mode based on source aspect ratio in Media Portal because of the way our Freeview broadcasters choose to manipulate and transmit their shows?

How do the Freeview STB deal with this? Do people with those also see C4 with black borders on all sides?


There is no way to auto fix this as all broadcasts are fulltime 16:9 frames. And yes the STB deals with it in the same way. I've explained in my post above why this happens, unfortunately there is very little we can do about it when production companies further up the supply chain choose to mess with aspect ratios. The problem doesn't lie with our broadcasters.

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  Reply # 166742 24-Sep-2008 13:56
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the problem lies in that your not using the standard size screen for freeview HD. Freeview HD is for 16:9 if you dont have 16:9 then you will have to adjust things and use zoom. If you have 16:9 there is no need to ever zoom.




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  Reply # 166782 24-Sep-2008 16:26
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sbiddle:
eXDee: Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.


This isn't actually C4's fault (or any of the other broadcasters) - they are receiving content in 4:3 that has already been letterboxed further up the supply chain. As a result you get the double up effect of net result of a postage stamp sized 16:9 image in the middle of the screen.

This is the result of the video originally being shot in 16:9 and then reformatted as 4:3 but with letterboxing rather than centre cut. C4 are then receiving some of their content in this letterboxed 4:3 rather than the original 16:9 that they should be. It also seems to be happening with some NZ TV ad's as well, it would be good if the production companies that produced this material could get with the fact TV is now shot and broadcast in 16:9 - 4:3 is obsolete. Providing you are still shooting with 4:3 safe areas you have nothing to worry about - unfortunately some of these companies aren't and then feel like they need to supply their content in 4:3. It's an issue that annoys me but I know why it happens and there is very little we can do about it.
 
There seem to be plenty ot other people who object to 4:3 material being displayed fulltime in a 16:9 frame which results in bars on the left and right. What broadcasters in NZ are doing by transmitting fulltime 16:9 frames is now pretty much accepted practice around the world. I can't actually get my head around why people find an issue with this, I actually like watching shows in the correct aspect ratio. I don't want 4:3 content stretched horizontally to full up the entire 16:9 frame. Fatovision TV? No thanks.


Ah i see. I kinda assumed when they receive content like this that they could do the zooming on their end. However i suppose this would require the right equipment.

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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 166909 24-Sep-2008 21:59
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sbiddle:
eXDee: Because for some reason they broadcast some 16:9 (wide) shows as 4:3 (square) letterboxed, so what you end up with is a wide image right in the middle with black borders on all sides.
Its pretty much the broadcasting companies' fault - C4 does it the most i've found.


This isn't actually C4's fault (or any of the other broadcasters) - they are receiving content in 4:3 that has already been letterboxed further up the supply chain. As a result you get the double up effect of net result of a postage stamp sized 16:9 image in the middle of the screen.

This is the result of the video originally being shot in 16:9 and then reformatted as 4:3 but with letterboxing rather than centre cut. C4 are then receiving some of their content in this letterboxed 4:3 rather than the original 16:9 that they should be. It also seems to be happening with some NZ TV ad's as well, it would be good if the production companies that produced this material could get with the fact TV is now shot and broadcast in 16:9 - 4:3 is obsolete. Providing you are still shooting with 4:3 safe areas you have nothing to worry about - unfortunately some of these companies aren't and then feel like they need to supply their content in 4:3. It's an issue that annoys me but I know why it happens and there is very little we can do about it.
 
There seem to be plenty ot other people who object to 4:3 material being displayed fulltime in a 16:9 frame which results in bars on the left and right. What broadcasters in NZ are doing by transmitting fulltime 16:9 frames is now pretty much accepted practice around the world. I can't actually get my head around why people find an issue with this, I actually like watching shows in the correct aspect ratio. I don't want 4:3 content stretched horizontally to full up the entire 16:9 frame. Fatovision TV? No thanks.

Hear, hear.


kiwijunglist: the problem lies in that your not using the standard size screen for freeview HD. Freeview HD is for 16:9 if you dont have 16:9 then you will have to adjust things and use zoom. If you have 16:9 there is no need to ever zoom.
Yes, but what about the SD channels. To maximise screen viewing you often require zoom mode there, even with 16:9, which can be a pain. Especially if the next programme watched is the IRL racing because the top scrolling ticker of drivers' positions/standings/etc. is half hidden & you have to reset back to normal mode. Not really a gripe: just an observation. Well, okay, just a small gripe, but definitely better than what we had before April.




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Master Geek


  Reply # 166986 25-Sep-2008 10:30
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I agree with sbiddle and use 'unscaled' (1:1 pixel mapping) however my tv - Philips 47pfl9532 - has a setting called 'Auto Format' which "Enlarges the picture automatically to fill the screen", i.e. removes any black bars.


Does it annoy you enough to get a new tv? 


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