Can I use Laptop to view Freeview HD content on TV or not..! GOING CRAZY...sigh...!

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NZRobin

161 posts

Master Geek

#27922 11-Nov-2008 12:18

Those that have seen any of my recent posts will gather that I'm on the hunt for a new laptop and that I want to record and play Freeview TV. I didn't think that too difficult a request in this digital age.
Now I don't consider myself technologically brain-dead and thought I was fairly up on the play regarding Freeview but this issue of recording Freeview is starting to mess with my mind :-/

Just read this article...

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/5F522962FDEB7FDACC257423007F9807

... which seems to indicate that Freeview can only be recorded in SD regardless of how it's output from the computer.

So am I right in thinking that

A: HD content is protected on Freeview?

B: You can view live and play recorded HD content on the laptops own screen?

C: That you can in fact record and output HD content to a TV as long as the computers graphics card the HDMI socket and TV are HDCP compliant?

D: Some new laptops have built in decoders so are they outputting HD, SD or upscaled SD?

E: You cannot output Freeview AC3 5.1 sound to a receiver unless it is HDCP compliant because digital sound has to go through the HDMI port.

Sorry, never owned a laptop before! Anyone able to straighten me out on this mess....?

Many thanks... Robin

amphibem

138 posts

Master Geek

#177327 11-Nov-2008 13:17

Wow that article is terrible. The whole crux of the matter is the HDMI standard, which is an international standard, basically is designed to be a one way thing. As in you can output over HDMI, but HDMI recorders are illegal.

However all this means that that is isn't possible to record off the HDMI output of a standard FreeviewHD box. It has nothing to do with recording Freeview on a computer using a TV card, or recording Freeview on one of the upcoming PVR's. Freeview is braodcast unencoded, with no DRM embedded and hence when recorded by computer software, it is entirely up to the software how to deal with it.

So:

A: HD content is not protected

B: Yes

C: You do not need HDMI or HDCP for Freeview

D: Freeview HD is sent out encoded in H.264 at a certain resolution. That is what your computer will play unless you transcode it.

E: You can output audio through whatever device (analogue or digital) to whatever device

All of the above holds for Freeview on a computer in general, not just a laptop. Obviosuly with a laptop your choices are more limited, but if you can find a model with a built-in DVB-T tuner and graphics card with H.264 acceleration you can do digital TV. Even if it doens't have a built-in encoder, you could still use a USB one.

Fossie

1240 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#177358 11-Nov-2008 16:32

Your computer will ignore any protected flags. No HDCP, no HDMI.

NZRobin

161 posts

Master Geek

#177381 11-Nov-2008 18:20

Thanks, it's good to know it's not protected, the article seemed to indicate it was.

Quote
Fossie
"Your computer will ignore any protected flags. No HDCP, no HDMI."
Unquote

So if I understand this properly then even if Freeview should decide to broadcast with DRM embedded a computer will still out put to a panel via a HDMI or VGA socket at what ever the resolution it came in at or was recorded at because unlike say a Bluray player and panel, the computer cannot handshake with a broadcast signal. It would have to be implemented at the computers component level to have an effect which at present at least it's not. Have I got that right?

Wouldn't this also mean that if someone has a Bluray drive in their computer then they could record that disc to hard-drive or do the Bluray drives have copy protection built in?

eXDee

4032 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#177383 11-Nov-2008 18:31

NZRobin:o if I understand this properly then even if Freeview should decide to broadcast with DRM embedded a computer will still out put to a panel via a HDMI or VGA socket at what ever the resolution it came in at or was recorded at because unlike say a Bluray player and panel, the computer cannot handshake with a broadcast signal. It would have to be implemented at the computers component level to have an effect which at present at least it's not. Have I got that right?

Wouldn't this also mean that if someone has a Bluray drive in their computer then they could record that disc to hard-drive or do the Bluray drives have copy protection built in?

Spot on for freeview, its a free broadcast so unless the program you're using has its own content protection, or they decided to encrypt the stream (virtually impossible at this stage), you could do what you wanted with it (theoretically, ignoring laws for sake of argument)

For blu-ray, it has copy protection built in like DVD's do, but for blu-ray its called BD+. Notably they said it would never be broken(

), but now its blown wide open and there are a range of programs which can take a direct rip of a blu-ray disk to your computer.

Damager

2125 posts

Uber Geek

#177391 11-Nov-2008 19:02

i was keen to try freeview but knew my pc didnt have enough juice for it and gave it a go on my toshiba m5 laptop.

i bought an hvr900 usb dvb-t stick and following fossie's very clear and detailed instructions, had freeview running successfully via dvb viewer.

i could receive all the freeview channels fine although tv3 and freeview hd needed some extra cpu gusto..

the sd channels ran at about 10% cpu.. but the hd channels were around 30 to 40% cpu.. even though i ran fine.. a graphics card with native h.264 decoding and hardware acceleration is a must if you want consistent quality.

this was my first foray into freeview.

i could also record 2 channels at the same time and the quality was excellent.

the only real problem i had was recording tv3..i couldnt play it back so not sure what happened there.

watched much of the beijing olympics via freeview. looked great!

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NZRobin

161 posts

Master Geek

#177393 11-Nov-2008 19:10

Great, Thanks.

Imagine the furor if everybody had to change there set top boxes or buy a new one to bypass there built in digital receivers to receive the encrypted stream. I mean honestly why would anyone want to steal most of the rubbish shown anyway!

Re Blu-ray, Us good geeks wouldn't use programs like that would we!

NZRobin

161 posts

Master Geek

#177394 11-Nov-2008 19:21

Damager: i was keen to try freeview but knew my pc didnt have enough juice for it and gave it a go on my toshiba m5 laptop.

i bought an hvr900 usb dvb-t stick and following fossie's very clear and detailed instructions, had freeview running successfully via dvb viewer.

i could receive all the freeview channels fine although tv3 and freeview hd needed some extra cpu gusto..

the sd channels ran at about 10% cpu.. but the hd channels were around 30 to 40% cpu.. even though i ran fine.. a graphics card with native h.264 decoding and hardware acceleration is a must if you want consistent quality.

this was my first foray into freeview.

i could also record 2 channels at the same time and the quality was excellent.

the only real problem i had was recording tv3..i couldnt play it back so not sure what happened there.

watched much of the beijing olympics via freeview. looked great!

Getting slightly off topic for a moment. Yes I was looking at getting one of those (Hvr900) too. Their appears to be others out now as well. These from the NZ site will presumably be Ok with our DVB-T

http://www.asus.co.nz/products.aspx?l1=18&l2=84&l3=255&l4=0&model=2298&modelmenu=1

Would definitely want to record TV3 though!