Would *you* buy it? Dual-Tuner PVR + BluRay + Media Player

Forums › Freeview (DVB-T/DVB-S) › Would *you* buy it? Dual-Tuner PVR + BluRay + Media Player

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#74459 30-Dec-2010 19:43

Hiya all, merry xmas and happy new year (almost)..
Not sure what sort of response I'll get at this time of the year, expecting only hard-core geeks but then that's the ppl I want anyway!

I'm looking at importing a limited number of super-fancy DVB-T STB's with a BluRay ROM drive, 1TB internal HDD, full PVR features, *plus* a full-on 1080p media player with MPEG1/2/4 MOV MKV DTS AC3 pass-thru etc etc etc.

Hopefullly, that makes it twice as good as any STB, PVR, or Media player currently in NZ!

So, questions:

1. What's it worth to sell on TM? Is around the $899 mark reasonable, and would it actually sell? I myself don't buy on TM for anything higher than about $150 LOL so not sure if the market is really there and willing to push "buy-now".

2. If I did a special price for GZ members would anyone here be keen?

3. Does anyone know anything useful about logistics, freight, customs, duties etc etc when importing from China (Mainland) ? I've never imported anything before and have got absolutely no idea what I'm doing!

Let me know if I should post full specs, I still have a few outstanding questions with the manufacturer but I can add the clarifications on as I get them.

Apologies if this post breaches any of the FUG's, I'm simply trying to gauge interest in a product, not sell it. If I need to amend this post please PM me!

Cheers
Jeremy

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#422731 30-Dec-2010 19:59

Without a MHEG5 EPG any such product is worthless IMHO.

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422734 30-Dec-2010 20:04

That's one of my clarification questions. If I understand it right, it's like the DVB-T units seen in HK, whereby the EPG follows the same look/feel as the rest of the unit. I believe it will support series-link, not sure if that makes it MHEG-5 or not.

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422736 30-Dec-2010 20:07

AARRGGHH forgot one of the most important features: full 10/100 *and* wifi (802.11b/g/n) network connectivity with heaps of internet services like YouTube.
Also, full NAS feature set so you can browse to your PC/server and play media from there, or push media to it.
Also has a BT engine..

sbiddle

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#422740 30-Dec-2010 20:25

If it doesn't support NZ's MHEG5 profile it won't have an EPG.

99% of the stuff out of China doesn't support MHEG5 unless you work with the supplier to implement it.

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#422741 30-Dec-2010 20:27

Network connectivity, Blu Ray, 1TB HD and DVB-T make for a pretty interesting feature set. Particularly if the network connectivity means that recorded material is accessible anywhere on the home network. I don't care about Youtube or BT support.

Would I buy it? Probably not. Possibly I would purchase if the Blu-Ray was multi-zone and could be used for Zone A discs and/or if USB disks could be atached to boost storage(1TB fills fast with HD material). I would be seriously interested if it could also record HD material through component inputs, had a fully working MHEG5 EPG with series link, and could connect to NAS boxes.

Couple of reasons why I would need persuading:
1. It is fairly expensive for an off-brand item without a local network, so I would need some confidence about product quality and support availability.
2. I already have good networked media players that deal with most formats, A DVB-T tuner for my PC, an (admittedley crappy) Freeview STB, and picked up a cheap blu ray player in the boxing day sales. Therefore, it would need to be fairly special to be bought on top of those.
3. I am not, as a general rule-of-thumb, keen on "all in one" solutions, they tend to be "jack of all trades and master of none", as well as more prone to having one function/component fail.
4. I would need more detail on the inputs/outputs it has, to know whether I can easily incorporate it into my current cabling birds nest :-)

LennonNZ

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#422745 30-Dec-2010 20:35

Are you actually sure it works "properly" in NZ?

Bluray? Locked to a Certain Zone? DVD Locked to a Certain Region?

Is the unit actually supported? ie bug fixes etc? if it breaks we send back to China at our own cost? Any guarantees on this?

DVB-T.. does it support AAC/AC3 Sound and H264?(and MPEG2) How many tuners? watch 1, record 1 etc?

Most DVB-T units will support EIT but in NZ EIT is not broadcast fully on DVB-T but we use MHEG5 which alot of devices don't support. So makes it very hard to see what is on, what to record etc.

Power Adapter Support? As if YOU sell it you have to supply a legal NZ power brick (adapters from overseas->NZ are not good enough)

+ lots of other things..

I would get them to send a free demo unit to you at first and go from there. I have done similar to a few other companies STB's like Xavi and them working in NZ was a complete failure.

bfginger

1267 posts

Uber Geek

#422749 30-Dec-2010 20:44

A DVB-T PVR needs to support New Zealand's MHEG-5 EPG. It doesn't sound like this model does.

The Panasonic BW880GZK is $1039 now and has MHEG-5 and Blu-ray

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drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422753 30-Dec-2010 20:57

JimmyH: Network connectivity, Blu Ray, 1TB HD and DVB-T make for a pretty interesting feature set. Particularly if the network connectivity means that recorded material is accessible anywhere on the home network. I don't care about Youtube or BT support.

Would I buy it? Probably not. Possibly I would purchase if the Blu-Ray was multi-zone and could be used for Zone A discs and/or if USB disks could be atached to boost storage(1TB fills fast with HD material).

Yes you can add more storage (2x USB ports, although one used by wifi dongle) *and* it's an industry-standard 3.5" SATA disk that can be changed/replaced via a pull-out tray. In fact, I chose the 1TB size as a good middle-ground between cost and size, it supports up to 2TB. If you're really keen on storage, the BD unit can also be switched for a HDD (the BD is a standard 5.25" SATA unit) so if you drop the wifi, you can have 4x 2TB disks connected at once.

JimmyH: I would be seriously interested if it could also record HD material through component inputs, had a fully working MHEG5 EPG with series link, and could connect to NAS boxes.

Yes can connect to NAS boxes, you operate much of it via a web browser. And it's a NAS in its own right. Yes you can record from the AV-input using both real-time recording or scheduled recording. I agree with you regarding MHEG-5, but I know you can record from the EPG.

JimmyH: Couple of reasons why I would need persuading:
1. It is fairly expensive for an off-brand item without a local network, so I would need some confidence about product quality and support availability.
2. I already have good networked media players that deal with most formats, A DVB-T tuner for my PC, an (admittedley crappy) Freeview STB, and picked up a cheap blu ray player in the boxing day sales. Therefore, it would need to be fairly special to be bought on top of those.
3. I am not, as a general rule-of-thumb, keen on "all in one" solutions, they tend to be "jack of all trades and master of none", as well as more prone to having one function/component fail.
4. I would need more detail on the inputs/outputs it has, to know whether I can easily incorporate it into my current cabling birds nest :-)

1. Agree entirely, which is why I haven't commited to anything LOL! May be able to get FreeviewShop or similar (r)etailer to stock it and handle the support side, not sure.
2. Primary audience would be those without two of the three "extra" features (BluRay, PVR, Media player). If you already have two out of the three, it's not enough of a reason.
3. I hear you, something I used to live by and had forgotten in the heat of the moment.
4. Here's what I have:

2x USB 2.0 Host interface (1x front, 1x rear pre-populated with wifi dongle)

1x RJ45 10/100M Base-T ethernet interface.

1x HDMI 1.3 HD video/audio integrated interface.

1x AV/Stereo OUT combination interface.

1x Component( Y/Pb/Pr ) video out interface.

1x Coaxial SPDIF digital audio out interface.

1x Optical SPDIF digital audio out interface.

1x AV/Stereo IN combination interface.

1x HD DVB-T dual tuner.

2x internal SATA I/II interfaces

Your points #1 & 3 are probably enough to put me off if I was the end user (which I will be, that's how I got on to this), irrespective of price. If no MHEG5 then its a dead duck. It's only because I *am* looking for a BD player, media player, and good PVR that I stumbled on this opportunity.

Thanks @JimmyH, appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

1x front USB 2.0 Host interface.

1x rear USB 2.0 Host interface.

1x RJ45 10/100M Base-T ethernet interface.

1x HDMI 1.3 HD video/audio integrated interface.

1x AV/Stereo OUT combination interface.

1x Component( Y/Pb/Pr ) video out interface.

1x Coaxial SPDIF digital audio out interface.

1x Optical SPDIF digital audio out interface.

1x AV/Stereo IN combination interface.

1x HD DVB-T SIngle tuner or dual tuner model (Option, User installable).

2x internal SATA I/II interfaces

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422766 30-Dec-2010 21:14

LennonNZ: Are you actually sure it works "properly" in NZ?

Bluray? Locked to a Certain Zone? DVD Locked to a Certain Region?

Is the unit actually supported? ie bug fixes etc? if it breaks we send back to China at our own cost? Any guarantees on this?

As regards support, not sure at this point. I would like to say I'll hold warranty stock etc, but no promises at this point. I realise that's not what anyone expects to get from a product costing close to $1k, so will be part of my over-all decision matrix. I don't do things half-pie so would go against my nature to have a crap support solution.

No, I don't know that it works in NZ at all. I'll be testing a few units before committing to a purchase, as minimum order is 100 units so I'll need places like GeekZone to review and be positive before I do anything.

BD region is something I'll need to find out, thx for the heads-up.

LennonNZ: DVB-T.. does it support AAC/AC3 Sound and H264?(and MPEG2) How many tuners? watch 1, record 1 etc?

Most DVB-T units will support EIT but in NZ EIT is not broadcast fully on DVB-T but we use MHEG5 which alot of devices don't support. So makes it very hard to see what is on, what to record etc.

AAC & AC3 = yes. H.264 yes. MPEG2 yes. Two full tuners, or it's not worth doing.
Yeah I know about the MHEG5 vs EIT stuff, that is a big question-mark at the moment. AU seems to have much better EIT info on their DVB-T broadcast, but suffers the same lag and blank spots as NZ. Neither is good enough for my liking.

LennonNZ: Power Adapter Support? As if YOU sell it you have to supply a legal NZ power brick (adapters from overseas->NZ are not good enough)

Yep, aware of that.

LennonNZ: + lots of other things..

I would get them to send a free demo unit to you at first and go from there. I have done similar to a few other companies STB's like Xavi and them working in NZ was a complete failure.

These guys won't do a free demo unit, but will deduct the cost of the demo unit from the main order if it happens. That's one of the reasons I'm on here asking, coz if it doesn't fly I'm out of pocket money and will have a very grumpy wife!

Thanks for the feedback @LennonNZ

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422769 30-Dec-2010 21:25

bfginger: A DVB-T PVR needs to support New Zealand's MHEG-5 EPG. It doesn't sound like this model does.

The Panasonic BW880GZK is $1039 now and has MHEG-5 and Blu-ray

Agreed EPG is a must. If this unit can do all that the Panasonic can do (except Viera Link!) plus be a full NAS and media player then is it worth as much as the original BW880GZK list price of $1499?

sbiddle

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#422770 30-Dec-2010 21:25

drjay: Yeah I know about the MHEG5 vs EIT stuff, that is a big question-mark at the moment. AU seems to have much better EIT info on their DVB-T broadcast, but suffers the same lag and blank spots as NZ. Neither is good enough for my liking.

Australia have switched to MHEG5 for their "primary" EPG also. Their EIT EPG will remain in place due to the huge number of legacy devices but MHEG5 will offer a lot more and also does CRID which is very cool (I wish Freeview in NZ could roll this out!). This allows the EPG to be real time and allow for late running shows.

bfginger

1267 posts

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#422784 30-Dec-2010 22:10

drjay:
bfginger: A DVB-T PVR needs to support New Zealand's MHEG-5 EPG. It doesn't sound like this model does.

The Panasonic BW880GZK is $1039 now and has MHEG-5 and Blu-ray

Agreed EPG is a must. If this unit can do all that the Panasonic can do (except Viera Link!) plus be a full NAS and media player then is it worth as much as the original BW880GZK list price of $1499?

$1499 RRP was severely overpriced which is why the price has dropped so much. I doubt it is selling well at $1039 and I'd expect it to drop more.

$899 is probably a maximum price so long as it's a solid quality unit. $849 is more realistic if you want to shift alot of volume. This is a small market and not an especially wealthy one and most of your potential market already has at least one or two of the three out of a PVR, Blu-ray and media player. I think the number of people put off by the price would rapidly rise at a price point above $900. Even it is worth as much as the BW880GZK, people are discouraged by minor brand hardware.

Some other points to look for include
* DVD should be region-free if possible as many DVDs in NZ are meant for other regions
* Does it do HD over component for DVB-T and Blu-ray and what is the quality like
* Can it play MP3s, Oggs and JPEGs off USB memory sticks
* Is the internal graphics scaling any good, e.g. 1080p24 to 1080i60
* Can it automatically pass-through the broadcast resolution
* Can it scale DVB-T to 1080p
* How slow are loading times for Blu-rays
* Can it reliably play back all media file types without the usual problems
* Internal temperatures too high? People overseas have air-con and don't have our high room temps that lead to crashes
* PSU quality. Does it have good caps? China uses the same plug as us but at a lower voltage.

For big brownie points see if it is possible to region-free mod the Blu-ray player. If that can be done that'll get some interest as those Oppo units are expensive.

You need to be careful when importing as there are many potential fishhooks.

drjay

104 posts

Master Geek

#422808 30-Dec-2010 23:36

Thanks @bfginger that's an awesome (fearsome?) list.

To be honest this is all sounding waaay too hard, the profit potential was marginal to start with!

valtam

396 posts

Ultimate Geek

#422892 31-Dec-2010 10:53

yeh, when I saw it was to be imported from China, it was an immediate 'red flag' (no pun intended).
Besides the issues with warranties etc as previously mentioned here, and without getting to political, I hope people start looking to import products from countries whose economies really needs the boost, instead I'm afraid people will continue to import products that place more importance on wider profit margins than humanitarian issues such as human rights abuses, labour rates, working conditions, these kind of things.
(I think I just got political!) Hell, they just kicked Skype out of China, I mean, wtf?? You can still make a good profit importing from other countries and I'm glad you're reconsidering your desire to pursue this product.

[rant] Buy local! Buy NZ made! Buy NZ manufactured![/rant]

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dinsdale1

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#422899 31-Dec-2010 11:18

Why don't you approach a local company to distribute on your behalf. A company that already specialises in such equipment, and not necessarily a big retailer. Remember the consumers guarantee act and providing back up and warranty for at least a year as well. Importing from China can be very hit and miss, we find it a lot easier to have a local ex-pat here to go through

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