Staff Discipline Question

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856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189075 5-Dec-2014 06:46

I'd say by now this person knows about this thread and knows it's you posting.

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SATTV

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#1189091 5-Dec-2014 07:37

I do not believe this is a sackable offence unless it is outlined in the employment agreement as an example of serious misconduct.

What you should be doing it sitting down with the employee and having a calm chat with them and explaining why you are not happy.

Issue the employee with notes from the meeting.

In the meeting explain that in future that failing to install backups will be considered serious misconduct.

In saying all of this, the company can learn some things here.

1) Why did the backup software not report in that it had done / failed a backup - who monitors the backups.
2) Scope of work needs to be written, so the employee has a checklist of what is expected of them on site, basically a jobcard.
3) Somebody senior should be going around all customers checking backups are happening on all customers sites, you have had one breach, there may be more but a good excuse to do a courtesy call to your customers to so some pre Christmas holiday checks as you will be on skeleton staff over the break etc.

We ALL make mistakes, what counts is how fast we fix our mistakes.

regards
John

I know enough to be dangerous

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189903 6-Dec-2014 14:50

networkn:
I am literally nagging and querying and covering stuff with staff all day every day.

Tldr

1) Don't work for networkn as you will be nagged.
2) People make mistakes. That's life.
3) Remember to run backups.
4) GZ is the new place to learn to be a manager.

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Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189918 6-Dec-2014 16:29

NZCrusader:
networkn:
I am literally nagging and querying and covering stuff with staff all day every day.

Tldr

1) Don't work for networkn as you will be nagged.
2) People make mistakes. That's life.
3) Remember to run backups.
4) GZ is the new place to learn to be a manager.

Here, here. I would discipline a manager for this thread. Far worse.

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Handle9

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#1189944 6-Dec-2014 19:03

I think that some of you are going a bit far. The skill set for starting and building your own small business isn't necassarily the same as being a highly skilled people manager who knows every aspect of legislation and managing staff. To expect every small business owner to be perfect is as stupid as expecting every member of a company to deliver perfectly. People are people and have different strengths or weaknesses. If you are doing it in a small business environment you don't necessarily have the same support you do in a big corporate.

One of the best pieces of advice I got when I moved to management is that the staff you are responsible for will do dumb sh*t. They are good staff, they won't really have a good reason for what they did and it'll be your (my) fault. If you can't cope with it don't manage people. It has proved to be 100% accurate.

networkn

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#1189946 6-Dec-2014 19:27

Psilan:
NZCrusader:
networkn:
I am literally nagging and querying and covering stuff with staff all day every day.

Tldr

1) Don't work for networkn as you will be nagged.
2) People make mistakes. That's life.
3) Remember to run backups.
4) GZ is the new place to learn to be a manager.

Here, here. I would discipline a manager for this thread. Far worse.

Sometimes I wonder about people.

I posted into an area of the forums for people like me, to ask what THEY considered reasonable, so I could gather information for the purposes of being fair and reasonable to ALL concerned.

It might surprise some people that answers to these things are not clear cut, there is no step by step guide to cover everything you would ever come across.

When I said I nagged, it was an exaggeration, designed to help people understand, that in my organization it would be impossible to not understand the emphasis on customers having a backup.

I hire people based on their ability to manage a workload, keep key things like backup as focus and not miss those things. According to the law apparently I need to document the process so if a person fails to meet the basic criteria of their
job I can handle that appropriately, something I previously would have considered to be unnecessary. I now wonder if I should have a section called communications which forbids stabbing customers in the eyes, thighs or chest.

Personally in the reverse situation I would have expected to be given a written warning or sacked for such a miss of a fundamental part of my job, I'd probably even offer my resignation, but I guess I'd hold myself more accountable internally than others.

I accept that people make mistakes, but making a mistake doesn't mean no consequences. Half the people in prison probably think they made a mistake.

MikeB4

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#1189948 6-Dec-2014 19:36

Psilan:
NZCrusader:
networkn:
I am literally nagging and querying and covering stuff with staff all day every day.

Tldr

1) Don't work for networkn as you will be nagged.
2) People make mistakes. That's life.
3) Remember to run backups.
4) GZ is the new place to learn to be a manager.

Here, here. I would discipline a manager for this thread. Far worse.

Why? The company, the customer and the staff concerned have not been identified. Your suggestion is ludicrous.

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

networkn

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#1189951 6-Dec-2014 19:42

KiwiNZ:
Psilan:
NZCrusader:
networkn:
I am literally nagging and querying and covering stuff with staff all day every day.

Tldr

1) Don't work for networkn as you will be nagged.
2) People make mistakes. That's life.
3) Remember to run backups.
4) GZ is the new place to learn to be a manager.

Here, here. I would discipline a manager for this thread. Far worse.

Why? The company, the customer and the staff concerned have not been identified. Your suggestion is ludicrous.

Thanks.

I want to be 100% clear that no customers data was actually at risk despite the situation that occurred.

networkn

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#1189958 6-Dec-2014 19:53

SATTV: I do not believe this is a sackable offence unless it is outlined in the employment agreement as an example of serious misconduct.

What you should be doing it sitting down with the employee and having a calm chat with them and explaining why you are not happy.

Issue the employee with notes from the meeting.

In the meeting explain that in future that failing to install backups will be considered serious misconduct.

In saying all of this, the company can learn some things here.

1) Why did the backup software not report in that it had done / failed a backup - who monitors the backups.
2) Scope of work needs to be written, so the employee has a checklist of what is expected of them on site, basically a jobcard.
3) Somebody senior should be going around all customers checking backups are happening on all customers sites, you have had one breach, there may be more but a good excuse to do a courtesy call to your customers to so some pre Christmas holiday checks as you will be on skeleton staff over the break etc.

We ALL make mistakes, what counts is how fast we fix our mistakes.

regards
John

Thanks for the reply.

We have software that covers points 1 and 3 and this is part of 2 independent processes that occur to prevent loss of data. It was one of those processes which captured the fact the backup software hadn't been upgraded/changed.

Potentially I think the biggest take home here is that we need to be giving people a job card for backup related tasks instead of relying on verbal instructions, though previously someone who was unable to complete a task immediately upon request would be putting this into their work management so they didn't forget, and this staff member didn't do that either. We do have a number of processes internally for all sorts of things, I just didn't cover those specifically in my post as to not make the issue potentially more complicated.

MikeB4

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#1189959 6-Dec-2014 19:59

Back up Data and as such a rollback plan is essential and an important best practice that should be second nature to any qualified engineer. Given this I would regard this a serious breach with costly potential. The minimum would be to give a formal warning and place the staff member concerned on performance review. I would make it very clear as to what asny repeat would result in dismissal.

As part of the performance review I would recheck the individuals stated qualifications and CV.

Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189962 6-Dec-2014 20:06

KiwiNZ
Why? The company, the customer and the staff concerned have not been identified. Your suggestion is ludicrous.

Should I identify?

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Sideface

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#1189963 6-Dec-2014 20:19

Psilan: Should I identify?

Not unless you want to risk being sued.

Sideface

Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189970 6-Dec-2014 20:42

Sideface:
Psilan: Should I identify?

Not unless you want to risk being sued.

rofl

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MikeB4

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#1189971 6-Dec-2014 20:43

Psilan:
KiwiNZ
Why? The company, the customer and the staff concerned have not been identified. Your suggestion is ludicrous.

Should I identify?

That would be a very stupid thing to do and I am sure most here would not welcome it.I would report it immediately

Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1189972 6-Dec-2014 20:47

KiwiNZ:
Psilan:
KiwiNZ
Why? The company, the customer and the staff concerned have not been identified. Your suggestion is ludicrous.

Should I identify?

That would be a very stupid thing to do and I am sure most here would not welcome it.I would report it immediately

Anybody with a spare 20 seconds can see his full name and company name. I just think this post reeks of incompetence.
I have no real desire to out somebody like that.

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