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15 posts

Geek


# 18737 22-Jan-2008 07:40
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Hi,
I have built a number of applications in M$ Access environment, with and without Servers etc.
I now would like to re-build some as Web Applications. I prefer open source environment, and would like some ideas of the best and fastest path to get good results. Have looked at AwareIM, JBoss Eclipse, maybe PHP (Seems a bit deep for me). Of them all I liked the JBoss / Eclipse bundle, although I need to learn a bit about the environment when it comes to build time. Currently running openSUSE and unless I receive a brain transplant, likely to keep running the same ... if M$ will let Novell have enough rope

Anywhoooo any help most appreciated.

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235 posts

Master Geek


  # 106061 22-Jan-2008 08:55
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My IDE choice is IntelliJ IDEA then Eclipse (for Java)

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  # 106104 22-Jan-2008 13:24
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I would recomend either Eclipse (which I use at work quite a lot) or NetBeans (which I used to use a lot), or you could even download Visual Studio Express for free!  Really depends on what environment you are targetting.  I use JBoss and Eclipse allows hot deployment into JBoss as part of the build process, which saves a lot of time.

 
 
 
 


95 posts

Master Geek


  # 107072 27-Jan-2008 21:22
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I agree with timbosan .... All depends what you are targetting and what you are used to.

I use MS Visual Studio for the very good reason that we have a lot of VB code and it makes it easier for me to switch between desktop and web development.  It's a great environment for debugging and testing.

But ... not Open Source.  Apps can only run on Windows ... UNLESS you go with a Linux platform and run Mono (www.mono-project.com).

I have not used Mono but others say it works well.  It will let you run VB.NET code on a Linux platform for zip ...

So, if you don't want to change languages too much (coming from a VBA environment) then maybe a combination of Visual Studion (Express or full versions) for your development environment on Windows and Mono on your production systems?


DS



15 posts

Geek


# 107073 27-Jan-2008 21:38
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Understood ... not many windows platforms around here, I have an older P3 running Win2000, with a broken VBStudio on it, least ways It does not appear to work well with a MPLAB a PIC programming app that I have on it as well.

I have sat in on a few Video runs of development of web applications using Eclipse, and liked what I saw, but problem I have is, at the point where I want to connect to a MySQL server, the JDBC seems to fall over. resulting in me having to research how to set it up so that it works ... guess the JBoss environment is similar.
I have a sharp learning curve ahead of me. One thing that has attracted me to JAVA is that there is a lot of compatibility with embedded technologies, and one wire systems, so there is a good environment, for peripheral sensor reporting onto a web application, E.g., an application showing the layout of a cool store, with temperature sensors located throughout the store ... enabling real time management etc etc.
Essentially my small IT challenges are somewhat Rural in flavour, but they require innovative approachs, and M$ Access, has a limit, even though it is possible to write modules etc to overcome the limitations, to me, it is a ligh approach. (Quick and comfortable never the less).

I have limited years left to learn, say 20 years, do ya think I can do it?  

95 posts

Master Geek


  # 107074 27-Jan-2008 21:43
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Alpnz: Understood ... not many windows platforms around here, I have an older P3 running Win2000, with a broken VBStudio on it, least ways It does not appear to work well with a MPLAB a PIC programming app that I have on it as well.


The first thing is ... do NOT attempt to run VS .NET on anything less than GOOD hardware.  It needs at least a 2GHz PC with 1GB+ RAM so ... that puts your old box on the "I wouldn't even think about it" list.

DS



15 posts

Geek


  # 107085 27-Jan-2008 23:37
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I am doing some tutorials with Eclipse and it seems a pretty neat environment ... still got a ways to go, but I sense that it wont take long to get up to speed.
Thought you would cringe at the windoze box ... it dates to about the time I gave up on windows in disgust. I recall all the descriptions of installed programs disappeared in the Add / Remove part of the control panel, after yet another security update from M$ ...  Basically by then I was comfortable in SuSE Linux, and with the exception of an Accounting program that reports GST for me, I do not use windows for much, even PIC programming is very good under Linux.

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Master Geek


  # 107088 28-Jan-2008 00:13
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Alpnz: Thought you would cringe at the windoze box ... it dates to about the time I gave up on windows in disgust.


I said MANY years ago that I would be migrating away from MS products ...

Unfortunately, I never got around to it and continue to give them money.  Why?  Because I write desktop apps used across Aus and NZ and ... my clients "want" Windows.  Their IT departments want Windows services and SQL Server because that's what they know.

I applaud anyone that can make the migration away ... if only to keep MS honest.

I am about to re-write my entire product in .NET for the desktop apps and it will also have a web version that will be hosted within Mono on Linux if all goes well.  I'm too old to manage multiple languages so VB.NET apps running on Linux seems a good deal to me.

If you have the choice of product then my all means follow the Linux / Java path.

As for the Novell reference ...

I was around back in the days when Novell was the king of servers and they shot themselves in the foot big time when they misjudged the "application server" market and let MS grab it.  I would like to see them succeed and survive so fingers crossed.

DS

 
 
 
 


799 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 107091 28-Jan-2008 00:38
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Alpnz: Hi,
I have built a number of applications in M$ Access environment, with and without Servers etc.
I now would like to re-build some as Web Applications. I prefer open source environment, and would like some ideas of the best and fastest path to get good results. Have looked at AwareIM, JBoss Eclipse, maybe PHP (Seems a bit deep for me). Of them all I liked the JBoss / Eclipse bundle, although I need to learn a bit about the environment when it comes to build time. Currently running openSUSE and unless I receive a brain transplant, likely to keep running the same ... if M$ will let Novell have enough rope

Anywhoooo any help most appreciated.


It would be better to re-frame your question to,

"Best IDE environment for web applications in Linux platform" - is that correct?

If you ask for Windows Platform - Don't look other than Visual Studio. Well, with IronRuby, you can also have Ruby working with Visual Studio, with IronPython - Python working with Visual Studio. And Visual Studio 2008 is THE BEST IDE I have ever seen.

That said, I have never seen a good Web IDE in Linux. For Desktop apps, you can have KDevelop (if KDE) and GTK+ (If Gnome) and also Qt and not to mention about PyQT,PyGTK.




Regards,
Chaks

Desktop : Intel Quad Core Q9400 2.66GHz - 8GB RAM - 500 GB + 500 GB HDD - NVidia GeForce 9800GT - LG246WH Flatron Display - Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise with Hyper-V
Virtual Machine : Powered by Hyper-V and VMWare Workstation
Laptop: HP dv7-3004TX Entertainment Notebook PC | HP Touchsmart tx2 1119au - Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Mac: iMac 21.5" Snow Leopard
Mobile : iPhone 3GS



15 posts

Geek


  # 107100 28-Jan-2008 07:49
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Sorry about that ... yes Best IDE for web applications in a Linux environment.
As for the comment about Novell, I agree, I just hope that they are not being used by M$ to gain leverage.
We have the interesting development of M$ proposing M$ Open Source licenses or some such name, it is interesting to see M$'s interpretation of Open Source.
Governments the world over are adopting Open Source standards for document storage etc, so M$ needs to catch a ride on the train. M$ in the beginning dismissed open source as unworkable, then well it works for some situations, to a position today where it is trying to redefine what open source means. They still have not grasped the concept in my view. They still believe they can muscle into being their own idea of open source.
IT admin's the world over use Linux to monitor and manger and often glue together their networks, however they do not decide what OS is used.
Company managers, the world over know nothing else other than Windows, and they being the keepers of the purse in the end decide what OS a company operates on. It suits them to have some sort of blame apportionment, and besides they are adapted to the idea that the IT dept has to do a system wide reboot once a week.
There have been some pretty bad Open Source roll outs in the past, which are held up by M$ as an example of why Open Source does not work. Having said that there are a notable number of successful setups in Europe, and the US, in large enterprises.
When I said I gave up on M$ in disgust, I was a bit harsh, I was poor at the time, and could not afford the $14000 to gain the letters MSCE, and MSCD after my name. I smelt a rat one day in class when I was being tested on a live network, and all the tutor could do was pull a plug out of the server, which resulted in a working network in about 20 seconds. He said he did it to teach the class something about older IT service people or something .. I thought to myself, I am paying Bill Gates to do this .... that it meant there was no career path did not occur to me, obviously if you do not have those letters then you know nothing, as all managers have been taught this by M$. Its a vicious plot I would say, to which I would be invited to plot off elsewhere, so here I am, still poor, and working at the bottom of the pond, in an environment, where you cannot Reboot once a week.

I have very real and committed clients, who crave for applications that do what they want them to do, not what M$ insist it should be done like. All of my clients run windows, or windows / mac hybrids. All the versions of windows differ, the hardware ranges from old P3's to the latest acquisition, so my dream is to provide a centralized application, which is accessible by all parties, that will do different tasks for each player, be they a producer, a freight forwarder, a marketing agent, or an end consumer. The application ideally ties all of them together in a way that the consumer has a clear line of origin for the food they eat.
In my view NZ has to adopt this type of relationship with its customers, as the customer is intelligent enough to buy our products, they need reassurance that the label ID definitely is from a family in NZ and not a fraudulent copy.
I wish to develop that application in an environment that is open ended in terms of scale, and does not need to be rebooted once a week.

5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 107728 31-Jan-2008 10:52
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I think the question is a little open ended: you aren't sure which technologies you are using yet, if you are using java (which I advise against) you would best be using netbeans as it comes with a nice built in server for easy testing / deployment, if you are using anything else (php, python, perl) pick your favorite editor?

I was at an python user group meeting last night, and komodo was demo'd .... it seems like a great editor (cross-platform too) for scripting / and or other languages.



15 posts

Geek


# 376805 5-Sep-2010 10:42
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Just an update as to where it all got too.

Eventually an app was worked up using PHP, and now its in change as I have embraced the Ruby on Rails interpreted language environment. Very modest and small application provision ... but thats where it ended up. Java was a constant annoyance to me ... I just struggled with the pattern needed to get a result.

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  # 376874 5-Sep-2010 14:01
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If you're willing to spent a little money on learning/eductation, Tekpub has some great video series for Rails (also .NET, jQuery, Linux and other topics too)

http://tekpub.com/
http://tekpub.com/productions?tag=ruby


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