This is why you don't give the government powers to spy

Forums › ICT Policies and Regulation › This is why you don't give the government powers to spy

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Batman

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#909383 7-Oct-2013 15:54

I like your thinking - if we've never been terrorised it will never happen - hmm ...

SaltyNZ

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#909527 7-Oct-2013 20:45

jeffnz: don't patronize me please.

jeffnz: I'm putting my tin foil hat back on

You first.

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Dratsab

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#909584 7-Oct-2013 22:38

Can't remember where I originally came across this link but it's quite relevant to this "discussion"

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#909598 7-Oct-2013 23:58

Dratsab: Can't remember where I originally came across this link but it's quite relevant to this "discussion"

This is a great read. :)

DoomlordVekk

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#909603 8-Oct-2013 00:46

Salty, regrettably, what you present here reads as more an emotionally charged appeal for support of an idea (dangers of lawful interception of signals intelligence) with quasi-useful statistics than it is a logically framed argument.

The weak link in any process, regardless of how easily it can be circumvented or perverted, is often down to the execution of the process, namely by human beings or systems under control of said human beings.

Is the process perfect, by no means. Will mistakes be made, yes, as any decision making based on linear inputs, rather than binary/black and white factors.

While I find the nature of the surveillance laws now enacted and arrayed against us, the New Zealand public, distasteful, I offer that at least we understand the threat, if you can call it that, vs what the public in China, the Russian states or many of the middle eastern countries face and live under.

What you really should be asking (and helping to achieve) is will the legislation in its current form remain in the event of a government change at the next general election. You could check in with your local opposition MP on the likelihood of repeal of all or parts of the code or if more oversight should be added.

Given the massive increase in electronic communications, to think the only good people use them is somewhat naive. The nature of agreements that allow for the collection and exchange of SIGINT also allow you to have iPhones, Lotus Notes (heavens forbit) and in fact anything that uses 'Strong encryption'.

That point as a base, so many things that make life in NZ today what it is stem from agreements with shadowy motives and which probably favour the larger fish in the pool. New Zealand has most of it's bulk computing power thanks to agreements with the US, the UK and other powers. We have our jobs to some degree because we, New Zealand, have agreed to be part of something larger but by no means clearly understood by many. You get to watch movies because we have agreed to copyright oversight and enforcement of breaches thereof.

Terrorism does take place in New Zealand. Not often and maybe not recently but it happens.

As a parting thought, on the pros and cons of central government inspection of our emails, phone calls and Reddit.com/r/awww browsing, some Star Trek:NG thinking and you have to wonder, if we had a more oppressive regime in power, as some nation stes have, whether we might revert to stronger measures in order to get messages across.

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sdav

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#909604 8-Oct-2013 00:52

I think it is a bit naive to consider that in the private/corporate world your info is secure and only with the company/organisation whom you choose to do business with. Information sharing is widely practiced.

DoomlordVekk

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#909608 8-Oct-2013 01:17

I'd be more concerned about problems with lawful information sharing, a la this.

That is the far greater danger, IMHO.

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#909616 8-Oct-2013 07:05

DoomlordVekk: I'd be more concerned about problems with lawful information sharing, a la this.

That is the far greater danger, IMHO.

That was an interesting one, actually. The dangers there are also quite real, and increase as the sharing does. However it was interesting that the Privacy Commissioner approved of a lot of it - because the right safeguards were in place to minimise the risks, and the benefits of sharing were also clear. She did not feel the same way about the GCSB legislation. One gets the feeling that maybe these ones were actually thought out rather than rushed through after embarrassing revelations of (already illegal) activity.

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MikeB4

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#909619 8-Oct-2013 07:14

SaltyNZ:
DoomlordVekk: I'd be more concerned about problems with lawful information sharing, a la this.

That is the far greater danger, IMHO.

That was an interesting one, actually. The dangers there are also quite real, and increase as the sharing does. However it was interesting that the Privacy Commissioner approved of a lot of it - because the right safeguards were in place to minimise the risks, and the benefits of sharing were also clear. She did not feel the same way about the GCSB legislation. One gets the feeling that maybe these ones were actually thought out rather than rushed through after embarrassing revelations of (already illegal) activity.

The data sharing and matching has very strict controls surrounding its collection, use and retention.

freitasm

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#916521 17-Oct-2013 10:54

Another example of misuse of resources: UK Immigration Officer Puts Wife on the No-Fly List

A UK immigration officer decided to get rid of his wife by putting her on the no-fly list, ensuring that she could not return to the UK from abroad. This worked for three years, until he put in for a promotion and -- during the routine background check -- someone investigated why his wife was on the no-fly list.

freitasm

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#917298 19-Oct-2013 09:47

On another side, from the private sector: Government mandated data retention coul be used for... marketing. Who'd have thought?

Dutch Telcos Used Customer Metadata, Retained To Fight Terrorism, For Everyday Marketing Purposes:

"Some Dutch telecommunications and Internet providers have exploited European Union laws mandating the retention of communications data to fight crime, using the retained data for unauthorised marketing purposes."

Also from Computerworld UK.

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