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Devastation by stupidity
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#272120 10-Jun-2020 11:17
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Censorship has been dealt with in the Christchurch thread and elsewhere, but I think the impending legislation is worth a thread of its own. 

 

I have always been utterly opposed to all forms of censorship as a matter of principle. I was not actually opposed to censorship as such, just censorship imposed by others. I believe in self-censorship. There are things so disgusting and depraved, such as beheading videos, that I simply refuse to go near them, whether they are censored or not. I have certain moral standards that I try to live by. I believe in personal responsibility.

 

It was only after the Christchurch shootings that I changed my mind about censorship. Some people are so mentally weak and morally damaged that they cannot be relied on to exercise proper judgement and self-restraint. They feed on evil and they need to be barred from it. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why anyone should need to be able to see people at prayer being massacred in cold blood. I am entirely in favour of censoring that kind of extremist excrement.

 

At the same time, I am genuinely disturbed at giving this kind of discretionary power to any government agency or other official body. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? How can censorship of the worst kind of content be achieved without giving too much away? Is the proposed legislation the way to go? I don’t have an answer and that is why I decided to start this thread.

 

                                                                   





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2502149 10-Jun-2020 11:28
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you cant censor the internet.





Common sense is not as common as you think.




Devastation by stupidity
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  #2502155 10-Jun-2020 11:39
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vexxxboy:

 

you cant censor the internet.

 

 

Tell it to the Chinese.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #2502161 10-Jun-2020 11:46
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Doesn't DIA do this already for some content?


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  #2502166 10-Jun-2020 11:51
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Why is censorship any different than any other kind of regulation? Regulation exists to protect the majority, and in particular the weak or vulnerable. Being opposed to all censorship as a matter of principle is so idealistic as to lead to harm to those who are unable to defend themselves, due to the depravity of a significant proportion of the wider population. Believing in personal responsibility is naive because people are animals.

 

So censorship is necessary; all that remains is to ensure that sufficient protections to important rights are incorporated into any legislation.

 

And flippancy won’t help an important debate.





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  #2502171 10-Jun-2020 11:55
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tdgeek:

 

Doesn't DIA do this already for some content?

 

 

@tdgeek yes and they should but only ISPs that sign up to the service




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  #2502199 10-Jun-2020 12:40
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A practical problem with Internet censorship is that it is easy to bypass, unless you live in a totalitarian country that controls every aspect of telecommunications. Most regulation aimed at abuses tends to disproportionately affect the law-abiding, because they are the ones who respect the rules. I don't hang around extremist web sites, but I have the impression that those who do are generally fairly Internet-savvy, as was the Christchurch shooter. Censorship might keep the technically clueless from accidental exposure, but I doubt it would do much to block those who want to seek out this kind of content. VPNs are not exactly a state secret.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2502202 10-Jun-2020 12:46
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The DIA-provided filter is for child sexual exploitation only.

 

Today’s episode of The Detail podcast from Newsroom/RNZ was on this topic:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018749876/nz-s-new-internet-laws-sensible-censorship

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2502209 10-Jun-2020 13:08
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Rikkitic:

 

vexxxboy:

 

you cant censor the internet.

 

 

Tell it to the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

they try but if you have a good VPN then it's not.





Common sense is not as common as you think.




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  #2502211 10-Jun-2020 13:16
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vexxxboy:

 

they try but if you have a good VPN then it's not.

 

 

For an elite minority of people, maybe, but not for the masses. I haven't researched this so don't really know, but I think a lot of ordinary Chinese people seem to genuinely support their government in most things, and I imagine an argument could be made that this is a direct result of the censorship, since they are prevented from forming opinions based on objective information.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2502228 10-Jun-2020 13:37
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“It also allows the department of internal affairs to create internet filters for objectionable content, meaning internet service providers have to block any website which hosts that material.”

 

To bad if most of the stuff on a web site is legal. Lot of people doing nothing wrong will lose access. Like in the case of the gun man in Christchurch are they going to block the whole of Facebook.

 

Plus wonder what extra costs this will add.


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  #2502316 10-Jun-2020 15:36
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Rikkitic:

 

vexxxboy:

 

you cant censor the internet.

 

 

Tell it to the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

And the Australians. 





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  #2502360 10-Jun-2020 15:46
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If you think it's OK to post vile sh1t like the Christchurch massacre online, you need to fix your head. What ISP's did to slow the spread of that was totally reasonable and justified.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if you want to go hang out with drug dealers, murders, rapist's and pedophiles on the internet, then you can use a variety of methods to gain access.

 

 

 

I think a lot of the general public people forget/don't know that we have the DIA filter and the major players are all opted in. Yep, I guess there is that slippery slope argument, but at the end of the day we aren't China or North Korea. Our government isn't a totalitarian force trying to squash it's citizens - regardless of what the nut jobs say.

 

 

 

To me the news articles posted today were just your usual clickbait, get the crazies angry, kind of articles.

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  #2502368 10-Jun-2020 16:04
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What I've read about the legislation it looks like it's mostly targeted at events like Christchurch - live streamed atrocitities.

The time limited instant bans of content and making streaming of objectionable content illegal seem reasonable.

If an internet DNS filter is the most practical means of implementing this then so be it.

What I'd like to understand more about, and am uneasy about, is the take down notices. Are they linked to the objectionable material or how are they monitored and controlled from abuse?

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  #2502369 10-Jun-2020 16:08
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vexxxboy:

you cant censor the internet.



Practically you can. There are always ways around this of course but most people don't have a VPN or know how to obtain one.

If the point of this legislation is to slow down the spread of live streamed murder/abuse/child porn then it makes sense.

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  #2502562 10-Jun-2020 21:10
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chevrolux: What ISP's did to slow the spread of that was totally reasonable and justified.

 

I don't personally agree with the government censoring things on the internet, but at least its somewhat within their mandate. What the ISPs did that day was arbitrary censorship by organisations that most people wouldn't expect to do so, unless asked (e.g. opt in filters). I think you will find there are plenty of people who didn't find that reasonable or justified. 

 

 





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