So what's the deal with all these 4G phones?

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Disrespective

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#75081 12-Jan-2011 21:19

So with the end of CES comes hours of reading about gear we won't get to buy for a few months/years/ever and most of the storys i'm reading are about new 4G handsets running android.

Now, I understand that Voda are thinking about doing a 4G network after 2014 (Or realistically just after the analogue spectrum becomes available from the shutdown of analogue TV) but is it just another aerial in the phone?

Or more specifically, will these 4G capable phones that are being released now and in the future still support the 2G and 3G signals that we are going to be limited to for a few more years?

Whilst 4G download speeds would be awesome, they seem a little pointless with our meager data allowances, i'm more interested in the other technological advances that are bundled in the handset.

Will we be able to utilise all the other features of these 4G phones thanks to support for our older networks or are we screwed?

p.s. this is in the android forum as the new 4G phones i'm reading about are android based and i couldn't decide on which other generic forum to put it in. Mod's please move if deemed worthy of your time.

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#426651 12-Jan-2011 21:39

It all depends what your defintion of '4G' is. The US '4G' networks are not delivering performance that's any faster than what we have in NZ right now. With Vodafone right now you can obtain real world speeds of 30Mbps + on their dual carrier network, this is faster than what many US carriers are offering.

4G was regarded as 1000Mbps from a fixed location and 100Mbps from a mobile device, we're still some way from that!

And as for backwards compatibility all new LTE and WiMAX phones offer fallback to existing WCDMA or CDMA networks. Voice support hasn't even been standardised on LTE yet since it's pure IMS (ie VoIP) so all LTE networks use existing 3G/GSM networks for voice.

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#426672 12-Jan-2011 22:44

In other words, the marketing people are doing it again, creating confusion.

Some operators in the US call HSPA+ 4G, when here in New Zealand we call it 3G.

LTE is 4G but not available in all markets in the US yet.

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#426674 12-Jan-2011 23:10

Nokia has tested 650mbps on 3G+ networks

Linuxluver

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#426692 13-Jan-2011 00:32

Disrespective: So with the end of CES comes hours of reading about gear we won't get to buy for a few months/years/ever and most of the storys i'm reading are about new 4G handsets running android.

Now, I understand that Voda are thinking about doing a 4G network after 2014 (Or realistically just after the analogue spectrum becomes available from the shutdown of analogue TV) but is it just another aerial in the phone?

.....

There is an NZ-based company building a WiMax network. No idea when they will be launching it. Last I heard, it was supposed to be last October......but they are waiting on the delivery of some critical bits of kit.

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#426712 13-Jan-2011 07:41

Linuxluver:
Disrespective: So with the end of CES comes hours of reading about gear we won't get to buy for a few months/years/ever and most of the storys i'm reading are about new 4G handsets running android.

Now, I understand that Voda are thinking about doing a 4G network after 2014 (Or realistically just after the analogue spectrum becomes available from the shutdown of analogue TV) but is it just another aerial in the phone?

.....

There is an NZ-based company building a WiMax network. No idea when they will be launching it. Last I heard, it was supposed to be last October......but they are waiting on the delivery of some critical bits of kit.

There are more than one WiMax service in New Zealand already, including Wellington, Auckland and Napier. And I don't think WiMax qualifies as 4G anyway.

lyonrouge

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#426714 13-Jan-2011 07:48

sbiddle: It all depends what your defintion of '4G' is.

Good point, what makes this a "generational" change. 2G to 3G provided Packet and Circuit concurrently (oh, and Video Calling, wow, that was a success ;-), I'm fairly sure Telcos can not affort the 4G spectrum purchases in this market?

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#426715 13-Jan-2011 07:49

It seems the ITU has given up on calling any of the currently deployed networks 4G including LTE. Check this out

ITU announcement

So it might be a bit of a wait to get a true 4G network or phone to use it. Even so, if the carriers can deliver the speeds they advertise as 4G now consistently, I would be happy enough.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

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#426716 13-Jan-2011 07:52

lchiu7: It seems the ITU has given up on calling any of the currently deployed networks 4G including LTE. Check this out

ITU announcement

So it might be a bit of a wait to get a true 4G network or phone to use it. Even so, if the carriers can deliver the speeds they advertise as 4G now consistently, I would be happy enough.

I can't even get a stable voice call on a smart phone in my area, I would see that as a priority before increasing my my megre cap burn rate.

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#426721 13-Jan-2011 08:23

freitasm: In other words, the marketing people are doing it again, creating confusion.

Some operators in the US call HSPA+ 4G, when here in New Zealand we call it 3G.

Give the marketing bunnies time and they will..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#426725 13-Jan-2011 08:31

Linuxluver:
Disrespective: So with the end of CES comes hours of reading about gear we won't get to buy for a few months/years/ever and most of the storys i'm reading are about new 4G handsets running android.

Now, I understand that Voda are thinking about doing a 4G network after 2014 (Or realistically just after the analogue spectrum becomes available from the shutdown of analogue TV) but is it just another aerial in the phone?

.....

There is an NZ-based company building a WiMax network. No idea when they will be launching it. Last I heard, it was supposed to be last October......but they are waiting on the delivery of some critical bits of kit.

There have been numerous companies running 802.16d WiMAX in NZ for ~5 years now.

There are newer 802.16e and 802.16m standards, with 802.16m being designed to deliver theoretical 1Gbps speeds.

lchiu7

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#426734 13-Jan-2011 08:40

lyonrouge:
lchiu7: It seems the ITU has given up on calling any of the currently deployed networks 4G including LTE. Check this out

ITU announcement

So it might be a bit of a wait to get a true 4G network or phone to use it. Even so, if the carriers can deliver the speeds they advertise as 4G now consistently, I would be happy enough.

I can't even get a stable voice call on a smart phone in my area, I would see that as a priority before increasing my my megre cap burn rate.

Well having spent 17 days in the US (mainly CA but Vegas and NY) on T-Mobile on my N1, my wife on T-Mobile on her Iphone4 and my daughter on a bog standard Nokia on ATT, the number of dropped calls and no signal bars I encountered really made me appreciate the networks here.

I can see why there is so much excitement about the Iphone4 for Verizon - at least you can get consistent calls quality even though the technology is theoretically inferior.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

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#426737 13-Jan-2011 08:53

lchiu7: It seems the ITU has given up on calling any of the currently deployed networks 4G including LTE. Check this out

ITU announcement

So it might be a bit of a wait to get a true 4G network or phone to use it. Even so, if the carriers can deliver the speeds they advertise as 4G now consistently, I would be happy enough.

They changed their mind again in December:

Mighty ITU Overlords:
Following a detailed evaluation against stringent technical and operational criteria, ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed. The detailed specifications of the IMT-Advanced technologies will be provided in a new ITU-R Recommendation expected in early 2012.

Hence the madness for HSPA+ to become marketed "4G".

Disrespective

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#426868 13-Jan-2011 15:01

Thanks for the clarification chaps.

It seems 4G really is more marketing than anything else at the moment with a slight hardware implementation which has fall-backs to 3G and 2G frequencies anyway.

Looks like i might look a little harder at the AT&T offerings that have come out of CES for a bit of an upgrade/sidegrade from my N1.

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#426896 13-Jan-2011 17:53

Aren't NZ operators waiting for the analogue frequencies in the 700MHz to be freed up so they can run LTE over it? Whereas the so called "4G" phones being announced at CES is merely a speed improvement over existing HSPA network using the existing frequency bands.

Although I get a feeling that because the American operators were a bit late into the 3G race than say Europe/Asia, so they are trying to make it seem like they are ahead of the rest of the world into the 4G front? Just my 2 cents.

sbiddle

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#426919 13-Jan-2011 19:37

mrgsm021: Aren't NZ operators waiting for the analogue frequencies in the 700MHz to be freed up so they can run LTE over it? Whereas the so called "4G" phones being announced at CES is merely a speed improvement over existing HSPA network using the existing frequency bands.

Although I get a feeling that because the American operators were a bit late into the 3G race than say Europe/Asia, so they are trying to make it seem like they are ahead of the rest of the world into the 4G front? Just my 2 cents.

LTE can be deployed at various frequencies. The USA has chosen 700MHz however many European countries have chosen 2.6GHz and current rollouts are using a combination of both.

Here in NZ the joint Kordia/Woosh bid for rural broadband uses a large chunk of 2.3GHz spectrum that both already own.

Mobile in the USA is a joke. People just don't realise how much better things are everywhere else in the world.

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