First Driverless Car Death

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1223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1985410 29-Mar-2018 14:00

gzt: Various partially sourced tech rumors are saying Uber was running in this area with lidar off and/or a lot less lidar. It's all unsubstantiated so far.

Reuters have picked it up:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-selfdriving-sensors-insight/ubers-use-of-fewer-safety-sensors-prompts-questions-after-arizona-crash-idUSKBN1H337Q

Seems the sensor count was lowered (significantly in the case of liar and cameras), when Uber changed the test fleet from Ford Fusions to the Volvos. Seems the remaining sole LIDAR on the roof has a blind spot within 3m of the vehicle:

"“If you’re going to avoid pedestrians, you’re going to need to have a side lidar to see those pedestrians and avoid them, especially at night,” Marta Hall, president and chief business development officer at Velodyne, told Reuters."

So thats Velodyne shoving Uber under the bus, then reversing the bus over Uber again. And again.

Regards FireEngine

MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#1985427 29-Mar-2018 14:27

Uber does something dodgy

Mike

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1985428 29-Mar-2018 14:28

MikeAqua:

Uber does something dodgy

"Uber goes cheap" is the headline in waiting I think.

Regards FireEngine

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1985444 29-Mar-2018 15:03

tdgeek:

FireEngine:

In fact that sign begs a new question - are these Driverless cars going to need to interpret every roadside sign directly (ie read them), speed limits are already tagged in many GPS navigation systems from the location directly, not the signage - but what about local/temporary/minor signage like that "Yield to Bikes"???

Down the track maybe the signs will be chipped or barcoded, so they can be read. Or GPS is forced to include all signs, with a quick update process

I look forward to that. I'll put up my own chip / RFD or similar, saying 25km/h near my house. The driver wont see it but the car would.

Let havoc ensue....

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1985457 29-Mar-2018 15:15

Rikkitic:

nunz:

Here is how driverless cars should look - thanks Elon Musk

https://www.boringcompany.com/

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/

No seat belts. Of course driverless cars never make mistakes, especially the cool-looking ones.

what I like about this idea (other than the speed between locations) is the 'roads' / tunnels allow for one lane, very specific, specially designed for vehicles. The trolley the car sits on is designed for the tunnel and the tunnel for it.

You can have many traveling within a few cm of each other with no issues, there are no ways to deviate and everything is traveling the same speed / program as each other.

This idea is almost fool proof, as it removes the fool behind the wheel. It also is almost linear to program as there are very few merges, a single lane, no oncoming traffic and no stop signs etc. Almost as safe as a train with more convenience.

BruceHamilton

77 posts

Master Geek

#1985895 30-Mar-2018 12:15

Uber has settled with the family of the victim, including non-disclosure provisions. Media estimate dollar payment included 5 - 7 zeros before the decimal point, unless family has incompetent lawyer. Media had ( perhaps with Uber sources? ) identified the woman had mental health issues, convictions for drug and alcohol, and was homeless - victim blaming?. She may have been crossing where she shouldn't, but vehicle made no attempt to slow, and the mandated secondary driver was apparently looking at her phone. A family court case would be bad for Uber, but they still face three regulatory investigations.

gzt

17140 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1985899 30-Mar-2018 12:37

I expected the driver to be charged based on the evidence. The local police chief has more or less said already the incident could not have been avoided so that seems unlikely now. A trial would tend to delve into a lot of details around driver training and car tech.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1985915 30-Mar-2018 13:09

gzt: Various partially sourced tech rumors are saying Uber was running in this area with lidar off and/or a lot less lidar. It's all unsubstantiated so far.

I was going to say this. It would not surprise me in the slightest Uber was running with the sensors off. Black boxes is one thing these cars have as an advantage over others. The investigators should be able to know exactly what systems were and were not running at the time of the crash. This might be akin to the pilot who switched of the terrain warning because it was annoying them... And then crashed.

gzt

17140 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1985919 30-Mar-2018 13:18

Not exactly. The required driver is very unlikely to be in control of those systems.

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1985933 30-Mar-2018 13:39

gzt: Not exactly. The required driver is very unlikely to be in control of those systems.

My point was about switching of safety systems (regardless of who did it).

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1986100 30-Mar-2018 17:03

sdav:

gzt: Not exactly. The required driver is very unlikely to be in control of those systems.

My point was about switching of safety systems (regardless of who did it).

Re the Volvo systems - I'd expect those to be turned off, bad idea to have two systems, both of which can control the car to some degree, I'd have expected the Uber system to have full authority and the standard Volvo systems to be turned off.

In the switch from Ford to Volvo, Uber reduced the fitted sensor numbers in LIDAR and camera, with a few extra radar sensors, in that change Uber removed sensors completely, not just disabled them it seems.

Regards FireEngine

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1986146 30-Mar-2018 17:50

FireEngine:

sdav:

My point was about switching of safety systems (regardless of who did it).

Re the Volvo systems - I'd expect those to be turned off, bad idea to have two systems, both of which can control the car to some degree, I'd have expected the Uber system to have full authority and the standard Volvo systems to be turned off.

In the switch from Ford to Volvo, Uber reduced the fitted sensor numbers in LIDAR and camera, with a few extra radar sensors, in that change Uber removed sensors completely, not just disabled them it seems.

I didn't realise they used their own system. Do you know the reason behind using their technology over the car manufacturer's? Is it so they can change car brands easily?

gzt

17140 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1986156 30-Mar-2018 18:14

It's different in different partnerships. This is the deal for the Uber/Volvo 2019-21 delivery:

Volvo: Volvo Cars’ engineers have worked closely together with engineers from Uber to develop the XC90 premium SUVs that are to be supplied to Uber. The base vehicles incorporate all necessary safety, redundancy and core autonomous driving technologies that are required for Uber to add its own self-driving technology.

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1986226 31-Mar-2018 07:27

gzt: It's different in different partnerships. This is the deal for the Uber/Volvo 2019-21 delivery:

Volvo: Volvo Cars’ engineers have worked closely together with engineers from Uber to develop the XC90 premium SUVs that are to be supplied to Uber. The base vehicles incorporate all necessary safety, redundancy and core autonomous driving technologies that are required for Uber to add its own self-driving technology.

Hmmm but Volvo dont fit a lidar on the roof (or any of the other sensors Uber fit), and Im not sure what the difference between autonomous and self-drive is in this context???

Regards FireEngine

kingdragonfly

11203 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1987748 3-Apr-2018 16:14

Christopher T O’Neil, a spokesman for the NTSB, said that “in each of our investigations involving a Tesla vehicle, Tesla has been extremely cooperative on assisting with the vehicle data”.

But he added: “The NTSB is unhappy with the release of investigative information by Tesla.”

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