VF and Sky?

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Master Geek

#1569786 10-Jun-2016 21:34

quickymart:

I wouldn't call Spark Ventures "a black hole" - Skinny does quite well, as does Bigpipe.

Although these two business are not actually part of Spark Ventures. They fall under the HMB division of Spark and their results are fairly reported in Spark's financials.

Spark Ventures remains a black box - ie it's results are reported as 'not material to Spark' meaning they don't disclose the financials. Given what Ventures is supposed to do this is not surprising. Though as a shareholder I'd like to know personally. Lightbox specifically is a black hole - subscriber numbers are not reported, we only know vague estimations of costs ($20-30m etc etc), revenue is not reported.

Edit: To be clear - I didn't mean to imply Spark Ventures was a black hole in terms of sucking money. It is a black box in that its financials are completely opaque. I don't believe Ventures as a whole simply sucks money into the abyss. I realise this was not well worded in my original post.

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#1569798 10-Jun-2016 22:11

radomatic:

Although these two business are not actually part of Spark Ventures. They fall under the HMB division of Spark and their results are fairly reported in Spark's financials.

I'm fairly sure they are, I know people who work at both businesses.

Geektastic

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#1569808 10-Jun-2016 22:52

Bobdn:

I'm with Spark UFB now. However, if Vodafone threw in Neon for free for ever (like Spark offers Lightbox for free), I'd switch as soon as my 12 month contract is up. Neon has enough content for me to keep me happy.

Spark has set a nice precedent: it's ok to offer your existing broad band customers exclusive content for free.

Free is the only way I will be getting any streaming. I have not even got the time and patience to watch what is on the Sat channels - and I mainly only watch what my wife calls "the intelligent channels" like History, BBC Knowledge, Discovery etc.

There is so much unwatched stuff on the My Sky that I have to delete things I have not yet had time to watch when something else comes up more often than not.

ockel

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#1569810 10-Jun-2016 22:57

radomatic:

ockel:

kornflake: Just a point about the light box subscription, i have it on good authority that spark gave every spark employee ( including franchise stores) a free subscription, take that number out of the mix and it would be interesting to know how many people actual paid for light box.

oh dear god, please dont tell me that after taking out the freebies and the employees that the number of Lightbox subscribers is not that much more than Neon subscribers? That would be the funniest s**t I've heard all day.

I can say with some confidence that Lightbox have around 27000 paying subscribers....

Roy Morgan's numbers are extremely accurate for Lightbox - it's just that most of the 128, 000 subscribers they report for Lightbox are freebies. Therefore it would not surprise me if their number for Neon was bang on too.

Edit: Sky say they have 43000 'other subscribers' which includes hotels/pubs/restaurants who subscribe to Sky, Igloo, Fan Pass and Neon.

Oh the irony. The much ridiculed, much maligned, non-HD Neon with similar numbers to Lightbox. The really sad aspect is that with everyone rallying hard for internet-delivered content, and especially the millienals, the reality is that the only way that these services will grow is by giving away the content for nothing. In other words we want, nay expect, but we wont pay for it. And thats a truly unsustainable model.

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tdgeek

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#1569854 11-Jun-2016 08:28

radomatic:

tdgeek:

Fanpass is great. Its the lowest means to have Sky Sport, and I believe it fairly represents the real cost of sport.

Say they went SVOD, dropped satellite. Basic at 15, Sport at 55, Neon at 20, and reduce basic and Neon if you have sport. To say 10 and 10. How much savings from dropping Satellite Im unsure, it has to be reasonably large - ish

I think this is the way forward for Sky (whether they end up together with Vodafone or not). Certainly a merger with Vodafone will see this happen pretty quickly I feel - it makes sense for the combined company.

Satellite costs would be massive. Per Sky's last annual report broadcasting and infrastructure was $91 million for Sky last financial year. That is a substantial chunk of change. There's also the depreciation and amortisation present that relates to satellite broadcasting.

Problem is they are locked into satellite fees till 2019.

old3eyes

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#1569865 11-Jun-2016 09:01

MikeB4:
oxnsox: Whilst Voda-Sky say they will want to make content available to other BB providers, does this merger incentivise Voda to work harder on stopping people using UnoTelly and similar services?

They will protect the rights they pay for which is reasonable

I think that would be internet censorship..

Regards,

Old3eyes

tdgeek

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#1569875 11-Jun-2016 09:17

Article today, seems left hand isn't talking to the right hand

"But Fellet said there would be no discrimination when providing content to Vodafone customers, including on price.

He confirmed other internet providers would be able to package up Sky's content with their products on exactly the same terms and in exactly the same way as Vodafone would post merger, saying "that's right".

Stanners did not on Thursday rule out increasing the price differential under which customers could buy Sky programming with and without Vodafone's broadband."

Another article said they will push forward with an internet based service. There is no way I can see internet neutrality. Vida users will get a better price, as they do now, and I expect more features or capability than the others. Free Neon has been mentioned by commentators. If there is a big favouritism to Voda users they will get more customers for BB, but I feel any would vote with F it, Fanpass, nothing else, will do fine.

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ockel

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#1569948 11-Jun-2016 13:05

tdgeek:

Article today, seems left hand isn't talking to the right hand

"But Fellet said there would be no discrimination when providing content to Vodafone customers, including on price.

He confirmed other internet providers would be able to package up Sky's content with their products on exactly the same terms and in exactly the same way as Vodafone would post merger, saying "that's right".

Stanners did not on Thursday rule out increasing the price differential under which customers could buy Sky programming with and without Vodafone's broadband."

Another article said they will push forward with an internet based service. There is no way I can see internet neutrality. Vida users will get a better price, as they do now, and I expect more features or capability than the others. Free Neon has been mentioned by commentators. If there is a big favouritism to Voda users they will get more customers for BB, but I feel any would vote with F it, Fanpass, nothing else, will do fine.

Is there price discrimination when Spark gives free Lightbox to its customers? I'd imagine any other ISP is welcome to offer free Lightbox to its customers - so long as it paid the wholesale rate to Lightbox for each subscription.

The same would likely be said for VOD offering discounted (or free) Sky products. As long as the wholesale price is available to all parties on an open and equal basis there is no discrimination. 2Degrees offers 6 months free Neon for its new broadband customers. Is this price discrimination? No, even Spark could buy Neon on a wholesale basis and offer it to its customers, if it wanted to.

Its too easy for rumour-mongering to start (c-/ TUANZ) without actually giving examples of what already happens in the marketplace.

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radomatic

93 posts

Master Geek

#1570103 11-Jun-2016 18:29

quickymart:

radomatic:

Although these two business are not actually part of Spark Ventures. They fall under the HMB division of Spark and their results are fairly reported in Spark's financials.

I'm fairly sure they are, I know people who work at both businesses.

I can guarantee you that these two are no longer a part of Spark Ventures.

Lightbox, Skinny and Bigpipe are all moving/have moved into Spark Home & Mobile division. They are no longer part of Spark Ventures. They started in Ventures - the plan was never that would stay in Ventures forever. Internally the justification has been that they are mature businesses and now require the marketing and support power of the wider Spark business rather than the incubator/product development that Ventures specialises in.

PhantomNVD

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#1571298 13-Jun-2016 20:59

Oh the irony. The much ridiculed, much maligned, non-HD Neon with similar numbers to Lightbox. The really sad aspect is that with everyone rallying hard for internet-delivered content, and especially the millienals, the reality is that the only way that these services will grow is by giving away the content for nothing. In other words we want, nay expect, but we wont pay for it. And thats a truly unsustainable model.

...But maybe it's just good marketing?

My MIL just upped her 40gb/m 30/10 fibre package to "unlimited" precisely due to her 'free' lightbox use... killed her data in two weeks in the first month of use :P

kiwifidget

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#1574901 16-Jun-2016 10:20

I'm a Vodafone ADSL customer, a Vodafone mobile customer, and a SkyTV(thru Vodafone) customer.

The one reason why I am not yet a Vodafone fibre customer is because Vodafone wont offer SkyTV with fibre, only with ADSL and VDSL.

I would hope this merger removes this stupid restriction.

Delete cookies?! Are you insane?!

Lias

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#1575159 16-Jun-2016 16:51

kiwifidget:

I'm a Vodafone ADSL customer, a Vodafone mobile customer, and a SkyTV(thru Vodafone) customer.

The one reason why I am not yet a Vodafone fibre customer is because Vodafone wont offer SkyTV with fibre, only with ADSL and VDSL.

I would hope this merger removes this stupid restriction.

Someone over at GPForums posted that if you moan loud enough, and are in a dual UFC/HFC area, Vodafone will give in and provision you with a UFB connection in an HFC area, but I don't know how accurate that is.

I'll be switching in a heartbeat if I get confirmation it's possible!

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

Lias

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#1575168 16-Jun-2016 16:57

ockel:

Oh the irony. The much ridiculed, much maligned, non-HD Neon with similar numbers to Lightbox. The really sad aspect is that with everyone rallying hard for internet-delivered content, and especially the millienals, the reality is that the only way that these services will grow is by giving away the content for nothing. In other words we want, nay expect, but we wont pay for it. And thats a truly unsustainable model.

I think we will pay for it.. but we're only willing to pay for it when it gives us ALL the content. When the streaming video market becomes like the NZ ISP market, and you can get every single program anywhere on your account for $13 a month, and you just choose which dumb streaming interface you want to get it through.. Then we will pay. When its $13 for this top show, $12 for these two top shows, etc we're just going to pirate it..

Personally I pay the sky tax, but I almost never watch it, I just download whatever I want from TPB or KAT. I'd rather pay $13 to *flix instead of 4 times that to Sky but SWMBO and the kids like the sky box.

ockel

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#1575183 16-Jun-2016 17:17

Lias:

ockel:

Oh the irony. The much ridiculed, much maligned, non-HD Neon with similar numbers to Lightbox. The really sad aspect is that with everyone rallying hard for internet-delivered content, and especially the millienals, the reality is that the only way that these services will grow is by giving away the content for nothing. In other words we want, nay expect, but we wont pay for it. And thats a truly unsustainable model.

I think we will pay for it.. but we're only willing to pay for it when it gives us ALL the content. When the streaming video market becomes like the NZ ISP market, and you can get every single program anywhere on your account for $13 a month, and you just choose which dumb streaming interface you want to get it through.. Then we will pay. When its $13 for this top show, $12 for these two top shows, etc we're just going to pirate it..

Personally I pay the sky tax, but I almost never watch it, I just download whatever I want from TPB or KAT. I'd rather pay $13 to *flix instead of 4 times that to Sky but SWMBO and the kids like the sky box.

Nobody pays $13 just to get all the content. Not here, not Australia, not the US. In the US if you want to end up with all the content then you have to subscribe to 4 or 5 providers and it ends up costing about $80/mth. Here if you want it all then you have to subscribe to netflix and lightbox and neon. Thats just the way it is. With netflix focusing on more of its originals then I gotta pay them to get the stuff I want too. As for piracy - I dont steal from the petrol station, supermarket or the local butcher so why would I steal from anyone else? Convienence? Thats BS. Its convenient to drive off without paying but somehow people dont do this. There is no justification for it. Content is no different. Anyone who says otherwise is just a common thief.

BTW, Sky is not a tax. You can chose not to have Sky. That there are others in your household that see value in the product, well thats just your problem then innit?

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hio77

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#1575217 16-Jun-2016 18:23

Lias:

kiwifidget:

I'm a Vodafone ADSL customer, a Vodafone mobile customer, and a SkyTV(thru Vodafone) customer.

The one reason why I am not yet a Vodafone fibre customer is because Vodafone wont offer SkyTV with fibre, only with ADSL and VDSL.

I would hope this merger removes this stupid restriction.

Someone over at GPForums posted that if you moan loud enough, and are in a dual UFC/HFC area, Vodafone will give in and provision you with a UFB connection in an HFC area, but I don't know how accurate that is.

I'll be switching in a heartbeat if I get confirmation it's possible!

ild put it down to getting the right CSR etc too..

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