Libby Weaver recalls 20,000 books over offensive term.

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Chorus

#1896660 7-Nov-2017 10:32

Dingbatt: Perhaps we could take a leaf from Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman when referring to physicians? Although that then runs the risk of being too gender specific, so maybe appending "Medical Professional", but then you run into the problem of being confused with politicians when abbreviated.

Maybe people shouldn't wake up in the morning thinking "I wonder what I can be offended by today?". Our worse what they can be offended about on behalf of others.

Dr Quinn: Medical Human Entity?

vexxxboy

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#1896662 7-Nov-2017 10:38

surfisup1000:

vexxxboy:

im more amazed that a Dr didnt know that Mongolism was a offensive word to describe Downs, i thought even the average person knew that.

I didn't know it was used to describe downs.

I was vaguely aware that it could be used as an insult but wasn't sure why.

People are getting carried away in my view, her explanation is perfectly reasonable and people are seeking offense.

as it has been said ,, basically what you were saying was that a whole race of people were abnormal, the Mongols, because there eyes were different. There are a lot of words to describe people in the 50's 60's and 70's that are not tolerated today. the N word to describe African Americans, Fruits to describe homosexuals , spastics to describe special needs people etc. No excuse for ignorance , it should have been picked up in the proof reading stage.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

MikeAqua

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#1896669 7-Nov-2017 10:45

eracode:

I've been amused by the situation where a nurse does post-grad study to complete a PhD in nursing - and then a nurse is a doctor.

The above is an effect of the university-ising of vocational training that used to be delivered by dedicated institutions or poly-techs. No disrespect to universities, but I don't think they are effective institutes for teaching practical vocations.

They drive an increased cost, an increased academic and socio-political focus and a decreased practical focus. Lecturers may be highly regarded researchers but have not worked in the vocation hands-on for along time - or ever.

Mike

FineWine

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#1896676 7-Nov-2017 10:58

MadEngineer:
Funny, when googling that sentence it seems that she got that from the "Nexus" magazine.

wsnz:
Her PhD thesis was on the biochemical and nutritional factors that impact on autism, so it's related.

Herald Article:
Director of advocacy, Trish Grant, said the connection made between Down syndrome and folate had an "extraordinary lack of basic science". "Down syndrome has nothing to do with folate. "I think the comments are not only inaccurate but also distressing. They have potential to cause a lot of unnecessary harm," Grant said.

You would think that a person who has those qualifications in that area would know that folate has no connection to Downs Syndrome, which is also known as “Trisomy 21” which means they have xtra expression or leg on chromosome 21.
It makes you think how much of her thesis was plagiarised and how sloppy her research was. This is how all this anti-vaccination crap got going because some idiot did very sloppy research. Trish Grant in the Herald article is quite correct when she says “They have potential to cause a lot of unnecessary harm,”. The only people who will benefit out of this misinformation would be the health shops and supplement manufactures.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

robjg63

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#1896680 7-Nov-2017 11:01

I recall it being used in the 70s commonly enough but pretty sure it went out of fashion in the 80s.

So I would say it is now certainly an 'archaic' term - and I am not surpised than many of you (presumably of younger and more tender age) ie less than 50, might not have heard it used before.

I am very surprised of somone of her apparent age using that term - nevermind her education.

Possibly she is much much older than she appears - so maybe she really does know about nutrition and how to look after herself

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Varkk

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#1896707 7-Nov-2017 11:36

robjg63:

I recall it being used in the 70s commonly enough but pretty sure it went out of fashion in the 80s.

So I would say it is now certainly an 'archaic' term - and I am not surpised than many of you (presumably of younger and more tender age) ie less than 50, might not have heard it used before.

I am very surprised of somone of her apparent age using that term - nevermind her education.

Possibly she is much much older than she appears - so maybe she really does know about nutrition and how to look after herself

Yes, it is similar for many apparently race-based terms which fell out of favour around the same time period. You will still sometimes hear an older person using them. But very uncommon for someone under 50 to use them. If they od it can be with the intention of causing offense. I also don't think it was used in any scientific or medical sense, more as a colloquial term.

MikeAqua

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#1896714 7-Nov-2017 11:43

FineWine:

This is how all this anti-vaccination crap got going because some idiot did very sloppy research.

If you are talking about the MMR-autism fiasco ... it's far worse than sloppy - it was fraudulent publication by a person with multiple undisclosed conflicts of interests who had manipulated clinical data. The publication was retracted in by the publisher (Lancet).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Mike

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

robjg63

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#1896719 7-Nov-2017 12:03

MikeAqua:

FineWine:

This is how all this anti-vaccination crap got going because some idiot did very sloppy research.

If you are talking about the MMR-autism fiasco ... it's far worse than sloppy - it was fraudulent publication by a person with multiple undisclosed conflicts of interests who had manipulated clinical data. The publication was retracted in by the publisher (Lancet).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Yep - totally made up without any scientific fact - but its out there is the world now, and will (in all probability) never go away. Seems the appetite of the conspiriacy theorists knows no end.

I blame it all on contrails.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

wsnz

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#1896730 7-Nov-2017 12:24

FineWine:

wsnz:
Her PhD thesis was on the biochemical and nutritional factors that impact on autism, so it's related.

You would think that a person who has those qualifications in that area would know that folate has no connection to Downs Syndrome, which is also known as “Trisomy 21” which means they have xtra expression or leg on chromosome 21.
It makes you think how much of her thesis was plagiarised and how sloppy her research was. This is how all this anti-vaccination crap got going because some idiot did very sloppy research. Trish Grant in the Herald article is quite correct when she says “They have potential to cause a lot of unnecessary harm,”. The only people who will benefit out of this misinformation would be the health shops and supplement manufactures.

Just to be clear, without the context of the quote relating to what I said above, it looks like I'm agreeing with the link between nutrition and autism - I'm not. I'm agreeing that her PhD topic is related to her supposed area of expertise.

Anyway, yes it'd be interesting to read her thesis and see what correlation she draws between the two. I have my doubts, but I'm not an expert in that field.

surfisup1000

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#1896738 7-Nov-2017 12:41

vexxxboy:

as it has been said ,, basically what you were saying was that a whole race of people were abnormal, the Mongols, because there eyes were different. There are a lot of words to describe people in the 50's 60's and 70's that are not tolerated today. the N word to describe African Americans, Fruits to describe homosexuals , spastics to describe special needs people etc. No excuse for ignorance , it should have been picked up in the proof reading stage.

Strawman argument.

Those 'other' words were created to insult from the start .

Few people today know that mongol was once used to describe downs syndrome, and the word itself was a medical term for the condition and used in textbooks.

So, you are trying to take offence here?

I think she is right to apologise, but why can't we accept the error and move on?

Jonski

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#1896741 7-Nov-2017 12:43

Every time I hear "mongoloid", I start humming (quietly, to myself) an old song by Devo.

I was around when that song came out, and I knew it was an offensive term even then...

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
- Adam Savage, Mythbuster

BlueShift

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#1896822 7-Nov-2017 13:50

surfisup1000:

vexxxboy:

as it has been said ,, basically what you were saying was that a whole race of people were abnormal, the Mongols, because there eyes were different. There are a lot of words to describe people in the 50's 60's and 70's that are not tolerated today. the N word to describe African Americans, Fruits to describe homosexuals , spastics to describe special needs people etc. No excuse for ignorance , it should have been picked up in the proof reading stage.

Strawman argument.

Those 'other' words were created to insult from the start .

Few people today know that mongol was once used to describe downs syndrome, and the word itself was a medical term for the condition and used in textbooks.

So, you are trying to take offence here?

I think she is right to apologise, but why can't we accept the error and move on?

None of those words were originally created as insults, their offensiveness came through later use . Just as there are many other words which were originally medical terms used by the professionals of the time, which partly through changed understanding of the conditions, and partly because they were co-opted as insults, are no longer in medical use. Words like idiot, moron, cretin, spastic, retard, and mongoloid all had specific medical meanings. Now they don't.