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tdgeek
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  #1568816 9-Jun-2016 16:40
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Benoire:

But they cannot cannibalise their existing setup without significantly compromising income; effectively Sky Basic part funds the sports package and the reason they can't split is that they have to pay significant sums for sports and charging that to sports only would probably be higher than $50 a month.  Offering sports only at this stage, with the overheads that DVB-s has, would seriously undercut their income in my opinion... Obviously no numbers, but Sky UK is the same but has a larger base so the cost is less to each sub.


If they offered sports the only service, I would be straight on there and they would lose money as I'm not longer funding basics contribution to sports, unless it was at the true price of sports cost.



I agree. Sky makes $15 per sub per month, not much wiggle room until they can move solely to SVOD or satellite costs drop significantly. This merger doesn't really change that core issue. Fan pass is the sole sport option and a good one, even better when it's on ATV4.



tdgeek
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  #1568818 9-Jun-2016 16:41
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ockel:

Hammerer:


Benoire:


If they offered sports the only service, I would be straight on there and they would lose money as I'm not longer funding basics contribution to sports, unless it was at the true price of sports cost.



Well that would be at least one option for a new price point and new subscribers. Although it would probably be priced quite high (cost + margin + possibly some contribution to basic package) to reduce the potential to convert existing customers.



Lets say..... $56/month?



Great idea. Call it PassFan? Yeah

dafman
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  #1568901 9-Jun-2016 19:24
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Hammerer:

 

dafman:

 

I'm picking my naked broadband will halve in speed and double in price (-; 

 

 

dejadeadnz: If this merger goes ahead, expect 3+ hours wait time on the help desks, enormous billing errors, and even more useless customer service. The idea of VF's management gaining control of such a large, unwieldy beast doesn't bear thinking about.

 

C'mon guys, you can do a lot better than this! Winking or not, this is the sort of negative slaver/drivel that gossips and slanderers love.

 

 

Based on Sky's management record of recent years, it's more sensible prediction than drivel.

 

However, on the positive, Voda having 51% and (what appears to be) the sidelining of the Sky CE gives a glimmer of hope as a sensible first step for the new company. Semi-positive statement - happy?




tdgeek
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  #1568936 9-Jun-2016 20:08
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dafman:

 

Hammerer:

 

dafman:

 

I'm picking my naked broadband will halve in speed and double in price (-; 

 

 

dejadeadnz: If this merger goes ahead, expect 3+ hours wait time on the help desks, enormous billing errors, and even more useless customer service. The idea of VF's management gaining control of such a large, unwieldy beast doesn't bear thinking about.

 

C'mon guys, you can do a lot better than this! Winking or not, this is the sort of negative slaver/drivel that gossips and slanderers love.

 

 

Based on Sky's management record of recent years, it's more sensible prediction than drivel.

 

However, on the positive, Voda having 51% and (what appears to be) the sidelining of the Sky CE gives a glimmer of hope as a sensible first step for the new company. Semi-positive statement - happy?

 

 

Explain "Sky's management record of recent years"

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1568939 9-Jun-2016 20:09
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dafman:

 

Hammerer:

 

dafman:

 

I'm picking my naked broadband will halve in speed and double in price (-; 

 

 

dejadeadnz: If this merger goes ahead, expect 3+ hours wait time on the help desks, enormous billing errors, and even more useless customer service. The idea of VF's management gaining control of such a large, unwieldy beast doesn't bear thinking about.

 

C'mon guys, you can do a lot better than this! Winking or not, this is the sort of negative slaver/drivel that gossips and slanderers love.

 

 

Based on Sky's management record of recent years, it's more sensible prediction than drivel.

 

However, on the positive, Voda having 51% and (what appears to be) the sidelining of the Sky CE gives a glimmer of hope as a sensible first step for the new company. Semi-positive statement - happy?

 

 

Note Vodafone UK

 

Note Fellet remains chief of the Sky arm

 

 

 

What has changed?


MikeB4
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  #1568951 9-Jun-2016 20:20
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I am prepared to wait and see before passing judgment. I am currently a customer of both companies and looking forward to the change.

ukoda
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  #1569439 10-Jun-2016 14:23
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Am I the only one that thinks a Sky-Vodafone deal could be bad for Vodafone in the same way getting into the movie business was bad for Sony's reputation?

 

There was a time Sony was a well respected manufacture of electronic equipment but once they moved into the media distribution business they crippled the features of the consumer electronics.  The music industry was in a war against MP3s so MP3 playback was notably missing from Sony products at the time that market was exploding.  Sony went from a company that made products that customers wanted to a company who distrusted its customers. such as with their root kit fiasco.  Now the combined income of all Sony business is probably higher than before, but the respect the name Sony held in is gone.

 

Vodafone has a reasonable relationship with their customers because they have to in order to complete.  Sky is widely loathed due to their willingness to extract the maximum possible income from their monopoly of media content.  I think there is a significant part of Vodafone's customer base that would not trust Sky's influence.  Vodafone customers using peer services are unlikely to want their ISP having a interest in their traffic, something which Sky might be very interested in.  Netflix customers my wonder if the slow streaming really is caused by networking loading, or is Vodafone playing favourites.  While they may be unfounded concerns some customers are going to be wary and I do wonder if any extra business is worth the risk to Vodafone's reputation?

 

Personally I don't care.  I left Sky years ago and I'm leaving Vodafone soon for technical reasons.


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
Hammerer
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  #1569455 10-Jun-2016 14:43
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In many ways it stayed, and possibly still remains, a traditional Japanese "family" business. That's probably why Sony's diversification strategy failed to provide for sufficient cooperation between the six (from memory) main business units. So Music and Movies and Games had significant dislocations that cost them heaps in terms of lost opportunities and reduced the value and reputation of Sony electronics devices.

 

Various of Sony's forays were opportunistic rather than well thought out. For example, Sony bought into movie production when Coca Cola sold interests in two movie studios that it merged for sale.

 

They've also failed at quite a few things they tried e.g. the now divested Vaio PCs.

 

The Vodafone/Sky merger is quite a different situation which doesn't have the large geographic and cultural divides that existed within Sony's conglomerate.

 

I don't see why you need to suggest active bias against Netflix streaming. What did Vodafone have to gain from that - there's only downside even if Sky is thrown into the equation? Personally, Netflix HD has always ran fine for us on Vodafone cable, even when using US servers.


ukoda
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  #1569478 10-Jun-2016 15:24
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Hammerer:

 

I don't see why you need to suggest active bias against Netflix streaming. What did Vodafone have to gain from that - there's only downside even if Sky is thrown into the equation? Personally, Netflix HD has always ran fine for us on Vodafone cable, even when using US servers.

 

 

I was more speculating about how people may perceive the relationship.  I have always found the performance of Vodafone's networks good.  What I was getting at was if someone was getting low performance for any reason then the temptation would be to point the finger at Sky's influence, even when that may have nothing to do with it.

 

Think back a few years ago to Vodafone vs Telecom.  Vodafone put a cross an image of being young and hip and in the process picked up a lot of the youth market.  Vodafone have a generally positive reputation/image that helps them keep a healthy market share.  Compare that with the reputation/image of Sky which is generally negative.  It seems to me that when looking at the merits of a merger that Vodafone should factored in their relative public images, not just the raw numbers on spreadsheets.


SepticSceptic
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  #1569556 10-Jun-2016 16:44
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Benoire:

 

But they cannot cannibalise their existing setup without significantly compromising income; effectively Sky Basic part funds the sports package and the reason they can't split is that they have to pay significant sums for sports and charging that to sports only would probably be higher than $50 a month.  Offering sports only at this stage, with the overheads that DVB-s has, would seriously undercut their income in my opinion... Obviously no numbers, but Sky UK is the same but has a larger base so the cost is less to each sub.

 

If they offered sports the only service, I would be straight on there and they would lose money as I'm not longer funding basics contribution to sports, unless it was at the true price of sports cost.

 

 

The sports cost overhead is because Sky need to bid to get the Rugby, etc coverage. The money that is bid goes back into circulation into the rugby clubs, and the All Blacks, etc.

 

What would happen if Sky went "nah, too rich for my blood", and pulled out of bidding for the rugby coverage, and then TVNZ, etc went, "Nah too rich for me too".

 

Where would rugby's money come from ? Who would pay the AB's, and all the other rugby clubs ?

 

Go back to cooking sangers on a Saturday morning ?

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1569569 10-Jun-2016 16:49
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ukoda:

 

Am I the only one that thinks a Sky-Vodafone deal could be bad for Vodafone in the same way getting into the movie business was bad for Sony's reputation?

 

There was a time Sony was a well respected manufacture of electronic equipment but once they moved into the media distribution business they crippled the features of the consumer electronics.  The music industry was in a war against MP3s so MP3 playback was notably missing from Sony products at the time that market was exploding.  Sony went from a company that made products that customers wanted to a company who distrusted its customers. such as with their root kit fiasco.  Now the combined income of all Sony business is probably higher than before, but the respect the name Sony held in is gone.

 

Vodafone has a reasonable relationship with their customers because they have to in order to complete.  Sky is widely loathed due to their willingness to extract the maximum possible income from their monopoly of media content.  I think there is a significant part of Vodafone's customer base that would not trust Sky's influence.  Vodafone customers using peer services are unlikely to want their ISP having a interest in their traffic, something which Sky might be very interested in.  Netflix customers my wonder if the slow streaming really is caused by networking loading, or is Vodafone playing favourites.  While they may be unfounded concerns some customers are going to be wary and I do wonder if any extra business is worth the risk to Vodafone's reputation?

 

Personally I don't care.  I left Sky years ago and I'm leaving Vodafone soon for technical reasons.

 

 

Well , people love to hate Sky for the reasons you said, but that's a fallacy. Sports cost. Skys profits are nothing more than sound, its public information. Sports costs amount to 60% of content costs, sports is their thing, just like movies are NF thing etc. 

 

Vodafone UK who control everything now will be quite happy, as they arent getting money from Voda NZ as Voda NZ loses money, Sky made 170 million at last report I read on here (I thought it was 150) so Voda UK will be quite happy taking a fat dividend out of the country. So, I think its good for Voda UK. Voda NZ will I assume have cash to use in their business, ideally sorting out their collection of billing systems, so there should now be the ability to control costs. 


radomatic
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  #1569652 10-Jun-2016 18:12
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tdgeek:

 

Vodafone UK who control everything now will be quite happy, as they arent getting money from Voda NZ as Voda NZ loses money, Sky made 170 million at last report I read on here (I thought it was 150) so Voda UK will be quite happy taking a fat dividend out of the country. So, I think its good for Voda UK. Voda NZ will I assume have cash to use in their business, ideally sorting out their collection of billing systems, so there should now be the ability to control costs. 

 

 

Voda NZ doesn't really lose money - it's all a bit of financial engineering. Their underlying profit was nearly $400 million last year.

 

You are bang on, Voda UK will be happy - they've created a mega beast in NZ that stands to be highly profitable. THere's a lot of quick wins in the merged business too, like cutting the complexity in the myriad of billing systems as you say.


tdgeek
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  #1569710 10-Jun-2016 19:30
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radomatic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Vodafone UK who control everything now will be quite happy, as they arent getting money from Voda NZ as Voda NZ loses money, Sky made 170 million at last report I read on here (I thought it was 150) so Voda UK will be quite happy taking a fat dividend out of the country. So, I think its good for Voda UK. Voda NZ will I assume have cash to use in their business, ideally sorting out their collection of billing systems, so there should now be the ability to control costs. 

 

 

Voda NZ doesn't really lose money - it's all a bit of financial engineering. Their underlying profit was nearly $400 million last year.

 

You are bang on, Voda UK will be happy - they've created a mega beast in NZ that stands to be highly profitable. THere's a lot of quick wins in the merged business too, like cutting the complexity in the myriad of billing systems as you say.

 

 

Can you explain the 400 million profit vs the reported loss?


ockel
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  #1569721 10-Jun-2016 19:43

tdgeek:

 

radomatic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Vodafone UK who control everything now will be quite happy, as they arent getting money from Voda NZ as Voda NZ loses money, Sky made 170 million at last report I read on here (I thought it was 150) so Voda UK will be quite happy taking a fat dividend out of the country. So, I think its good for Voda UK. Voda NZ will I assume have cash to use in their business, ideally sorting out their collection of billing systems, so there should now be the ability to control costs. 

 

 

Voda NZ doesn't really lose money - it's all a bit of financial engineering. Their underlying profit was nearly $400 million last year.

 

You are bang on, Voda UK will be happy - they've created a mega beast in NZ that stands to be highly profitable. THere's a lot of quick wins in the merged business too, like cutting the complexity in the myriad of billing systems as you say.

 

 

Can you explain the 400 million profit vs the reported loss?

 

 

Slide 22 of the merger presentation is your best place to start - it gives the basics much better than replicating.  

 

The numbers not disclosed are the quantum of interest charges from VODNZ's debt back to the parent.  And any impairment charges from writedowns on TLSClear.  Think of slide 22 as a more representative picture of the cash generating capability of VODNZ.





Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination" 


quickymart
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  #1569728 10-Jun-2016 19:54
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Funny, before they bought TCL I remember VFNZ was a shining star on its parent company's balance sheet.

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