Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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#1743504 18-Mar-2017 18:56

it no different to if my dishtv PVR stopped working because freeview stopped broadcasting. the box still works fine its just got nothing to get content from, so its not dishtv's fault its freeviews.

your witch hunt is directed at the wrong people

mattwnz

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#1743511 18-Mar-2017 19:04

sbiddle:

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but based on a comment I saw the other day the Tivo hardware hasn't been available for sale since late 2012. That's 4 1/2 years, and typical CGA life expectations for a similar such product (home appliance in general) is in the vicinity of 5 years. Your products are obviously well over 5 years old since they were supplied by Spark.

Where does this magic 5 years come from? Do you expect to replace all your electronic A/V devices after this period of time or something? I have electronic equipment which is decades old, and retailers do provide 5 year extended warranties, so I would think that would be the minimum people would expect something good quality to last, and even then they are still usually repairable. Amplifiers for example can last decades without repair, as they don't have any moving parts to wear. If an amp had a RRP of 5k, I would expect it to get more than 10 years of life out of it. Almost all my electronic products are over 10 years old, some have had repairs, but if you buy decent quality stuff, and you look after it, it should last many years.

Hybrid would have had a time based license with Tivo for this Australia/Kiwi market, what was that duration? Wouldn't they have always known the end date on the contract?

I think part of the problem is due to mobile phones and 'smart devices', and the mindset that has come with them. That is because they are updated so often, people tend to replace them every 3 or less years. That has been flowing onto other products as a result, especially these products that now have smart features builtin, like fridges with touch screens. But who needs that. A fridge is a fridge, and people don't need to upgrade each time a new model comes out. Not only that but it creates extra load on our landfills, so we should be encouraging people to keep their products for longer. I thought part of the CGAs purpose was partly to reduce waste and load on the landfill by encouraging retailers to sell good quality goods that didn't fail after a few years.

mattwnz

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#1743517 18-Mar-2017 19:16

Jase2985:

it no different to if my dishtv PVR stopped working because freeview stopped broadcasting. the box still works fine its just got nothing to get content from, so its not dishtv's fault its freeviews.

your witch hunt is directed at the wrong people

Not sure what you mean? Freeview is still broadcasting... The Freeview EPG is also still being broadcast, and you can also get the freeview EPG on non freeview approved devices.

mattwnz

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#1743519 18-Mar-2017 19:27

minimoke:

The retirement date was announced in March this year. There was not any plan for a retirement date of the product when it was sold by Spark, or Noel Leeming.

Your claim is without merit - attempts using similar claims such as yours failed with the shutdown of the Telecom CDMA network, and will very likely deliver the exact same result now.

Hmm - I like the CDMA example. I have no idea about that but will give it some thought in context with this issue. What was the expected life time of a CDMA phone back in the day? How long do we expect mobile phones tolast for these day - 4 years? How much notice did Telecm give for closing down the CDMA network?

I don't think mobile phones are a good example, as many people replace them every couple of years on contract renewal. Also the technology in them is quickly changing. However, how long a phone 'should' last would depend on the device, it's quality and RRP. Iphones for example which are at the top end in price, Apple continue to support for 3-5 years with software updates, but not many people seem to keep their iphone for that long, and the battery life can be diminished by then.Whereas a cheap android is often using old android software when you buy it, and it often gets zero updates, but it will still possibly last someone a couple of years. So technology superceeds them .The same would go withe CDMA network, where the phones would already be super seeded with better cheaper phones by the time it closed. I recall some people affected may have got some discount or a free phone if they moved to a contract anyway. You could say the same thing about TV's, where people are always moving to larger screens, or better quality panels, as technology superseeds old models, so if it fails in 8 years, people will usually use that as an opportunity to upgrade.

gregmcc

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#1743525 18-Mar-2017 19:43

sbiddle:

minimoke:

freitasm:

minimoke:

I reckon the Tivo must be durable (S7 (1) e of the Act) and given it is regarded a high end device I reckon a reasonable period of durability is 10 years. I also reckon Spark failed to tell me about the limited license which would see the product failing in October 2017 (S7 (1) i) and that this is something Spark knew at the time and it is something that should have been represented to me.

When did Spark supply the Tivo devices to you? After the retirement announcement?

Retirement announcement? I'm not sure the dates ( I have to check my accounts) but it was before they started getting sold in Noel Leeming.

The retirement date was announced in March this year. There was not any plan for a retirement date of the product when it was sold by Spark, or Noel Leeming.

Your claim is without merit - attempts using similar claims such as yours failed with the shutdown of the Telecom CDMA network, and will very likely deliver the exact same result now.

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

Jase2985

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#1743527 18-Mar-2017 19:49

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

What did the t's and c's of the service say?

it could be one of those exagerations that companies use to sell things

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#1743529 18-Mar-2017 19:50

mattwnz:

Jase2985:

it no different to if my dishtv PVR stopped working because freeview stopped broadcasting. the box still works fine its just got nothing to get content from, so its not dishtv's fault its freeviews.

your witch hunt is directed at the wrong people

Not sure what you mean? Freeview is still broadcasting... The Freeview EPG is also still being broadcast, and you can also get the freeview EPG on non freeview approved devices.

i guess you missed the point of the example i was giving. just because the service stops broadcasting doesnt make the box stop working.

mdf

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#1743530 18-Mar-2017 20:00

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

Did they? I'd say that changes the analysis a bit. Who was offering/advertising the lifetime service?

mattwnz

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#1743531 18-Mar-2017 20:02

Jase2985:

mattwnz:

Jase2985:

it no different to if my dishtv PVR stopped working because freeview stopped broadcasting. the box still works fine its just got nothing to get content from, so its not dishtv's fault its freeviews.

your witch hunt is directed at the wrong people

Not sure what you mean? Freeview is still broadcasting... The Freeview EPG is also still being broadcast, and you can also get the freeview EPG on non freeview approved devices.

i guess you missed the point of the example i was giving. just because the service stops broadcasting doesnt make the box stop working.

If you read their email, they have recommended people cease using the box after the 31st. It won't be usable for the purpose people had purchased it for, after October. eg. using the EPG to record programs, as well as setup season passes etc.Also it will cease to be able to register, so if you every reset it, it would be bricked, as it needs to 'phone home' to Tivo Oz to register.

gregmcc

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#1743532 18-Mar-2017 20:03

Jase2985:

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

What did the t's and c's of the service say?

it could be one of those exagerations that companies use to sell things

On the Tivo settings screen it displays bold as day "product lifetime service"

mattwnz

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#1743533 18-Mar-2017 20:04

mdf:

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

Did they? I'd say that changes the analysis a bit. Who was offering/advertising the lifetime service?

Also Hybrids/Tivos advertising video for this tivo model advertises that the EPG lasts 'life of the box'.

Even if they didn't specify any lifetime licence on the service, it really should have been specified how long the EPG would be offered for I would have thought.

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#1743539 18-Mar-2017 20:12

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

When was the Tivo ever sold with a "lifetime service"?

freitasm

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#1743540 18-Mar-2017 20:13

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#1743542 18-Mar-2017 20:16

mattwnz:

mdf:

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

Did they? I'd say that changes the analysis a bit. Who was offering/advertising the lifetime service?

Also Hybrids/Tivos advertising video for this tivo model advertises that the EPG lasts 'life of the box'.

Even if they didn't specify any lifetime licence on the service, it really should have been specified how long the EPG would be offered for I would have thought.

This means very little in the context of the product.

This thread like the existing Tivo thread and the hundreds of pages on Whirlpool is going to go nowhere.

Hybrid have no resources (or money), Spark aren't liable for the Tivo service that they did not provide, and Tivo USA don't seem to care less. Trying to make anybody accountable is unlikely to happen. IMHO those with ~$300 8 yr old boxes like those people who purchased $1000 DVD recorders and found they ultimately became useless need to accept their product has reached end of life and move on to something new. It is just unfortunate here that no retailer has offered deals to Tivo users like Australia.

mattwnz

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#1743543 18-Mar-2017 20:16

sbiddle:

gregmcc:

I don't recall any CDMA phones been sold with "lifetime service", Tivo's were

When was the Tivo ever sold with a "lifetime service"?

If you read the posts above from Greg , it shows the lifetime product service license in the menu. Also Hybrids/Tivos advertising video stated that the EPG lasts for the 'life of the box', which I think is quite clear. But if you turn the question the other way around, where was it ever shown that the EPG had an expiry date, and that the box had a limited life as a result?

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