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eonsim
398 posts

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  #3137096 30-Sep-2023 18:04
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With regards to oversizing your inverter for your solar panels so you can add more later, has anyone actually done this and added more panels with out replacing the inverters or adding a new inverter?

 

Given the rate at which solar panels are improving it tends to become difficult to find matching panels for the rest of the array after a few years. And given the panels that are already on the roof will have degraded somewhat even if one finds perfectly matching panels they may not preform to there full potential.

 

 

 

@traderstu I assume the 3rd MPPT on each inverter is what you would plan to use if additional panels were added later? The typical advice has tended to be oversize the panels as the inverters tend to be more efficient closer to there max power and secondly the extra panels substantially increase the amount of power you get in winter and extend the peak of the solar day in summer.


traderstu
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  #3137264 1-Oct-2023 08:54
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From the get-go we are going to have clusters of panels facing in different directions and therefore outputing at different rates but (hopefully) connected in such a way that they play nicely with one another. Surely this is no different to adding panels at a later date with a slightly higher efficiency, or perhaps pointing SW with a lower efficiency. My understanding is that a greater number of MPPTs will make configuration easier. But I might be wrong.

 

Experience has taught me that it is likely that some time in the future I am going to need/desire more solar capacity. About $1500 more to fit the 8kW inverters now, with the ability to add significant extra PV capacity as and when required. I have no doubt that you are absolutely correct in that this may not be the best approach in terms of efficiency of output, but I'm pretty sure it will cost less in the long run.


rbensonx
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  #3160798 18-Nov-2023 10:57
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Spent a lot of time getting this right as we had massive power bills. Over $8K a year. We are now in the $3K range with a big investment in

 

  • Sungrow SHRT10 10kw 3 Phase Inverter
  • Sungrow SBR256 25.6 kWh battery
  • 33 x 405w Rec Alpha panels 

This gives us 20ms cutover in the event of power failure and essential circuits (water pump, some lighting, fridges, router and wifi, TV etc)

 

have a ducted 17kw heat pump system (individual room control), a 6kw heat pump in our lounge and dining room (probably 80sqm with vaulted roof), a 6kw swimming pool heat pump, 2 ovens, towel rails in bathrooms etc etc etc. 

 

Gradually working through more and more wifi controlled devices (dishwasher, washing machine etc). The base load is down from about 1.3kw to about 600w now. A mix of all sorts of AppleHomekit, Zigbee and god knows what else. So home automation via Home Assistant is the next issue. 

 

The latest win is Shelly 1 PM's on the towel rails. 300w 24x7 is now 300w 3*7. 

 

The power company is Octopus and love the 0.17 back. Lots of tricks around maximising feed into the grid etc

 

Happy to share my experience if anyone is interested

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3160802 18-Nov-2023 11:23
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@rbensonx If you have a decent sized HWC I would highly recommend including a power diverter such as a Paladin or Eddi in your system. We have a Paladin which does an excellent job of capturing escaping generation and this would be the single best component in our PV setup. This and our Evnex EVSE both monitor our mains by way of CT clamps and turn on their respective devices to deny any export from occurring. The bonus is that both Paladin and Evnex are NZ manufactured. The following explains diverters vs. HWC timers well.

 

https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/blog/new-solar-technology/solar-pv-hot-water-timers-vs-hot-water-diverters---which-one-to-choose/

 

From our experience the Paladin is far more reactive results in <100W escape when the 3Kw HWC element allows with virtually instantaneous updating. The Evnex tends to be a bit more 'laggy' with a 60 second monitoring delay and a 1.5kW minimum export threshold before it then interrogates the EV, so not as reactive as the Paladin.

 

We opted to keep our solar and usage on a single phase (for simplicity and cost reasons) so our 8.2kW Fronius inverter also monitors our export and throttles back if required to comply with our 5kW export cap. Our strategy is therefore to bring our various high demands on stream during peak generation in order to prevent 'excess' export from reaching 5kW. Seems to be working well so far as our latest Octopus account is $27 which I estimate is a saving of ~$250 thereby putting us on track for a 10 year ROI for our PV costs, without including ongoing electricity tariff increases.

 

 





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


rbensonx
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  #3160809 18-Nov-2023 12:34
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I've opted for a simple solution with hot water for now which is simply an old school mechanical timer. Basically, heat water from around 3am for a couple of hours and that lasts the two of us all day. Change it up a bit if we have family staying.

 

I'll follow the link and have a look for sure.

 

My strategy is loads (eg swimming pool) during the day too as well as topping up the battery. Get 15kw out of the panels at times but usually limited to the inverter limit of 10kw. DC coupled battery enables 10kw to the battery or to load/grid. I like the sungrow hybrid solution I must say


rbensonx
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  #3160810 18-Nov-2023 12:36
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The Sungrow also enables a limit to be set for export and for battery charge/discharge. Fair bit of granularity available to tweak to suit.

 

I'd be in negative bill territory for October if it weren't for the hungry pool heating. 


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3160825 18-Nov-2023 13:07
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We decided against adding batteries to our system as our usage of the available generation doesn't leave enough to make batteries pay. Our longer term plan is to bring our Leaf into service as a storage device by way of V2H. Just waiting for that to become a thing in NZ.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


Shindig
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  #3170214 10-Dec-2023 07:55
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Had an awesome hour long teams chat with Lightforce. 

 

Their modelling software is a great talking topic, seeing the panels on your roof, the simulation of 10 years generating power etc. 

 

We are a light electric use household. 

 

Estimated generation is 6,239kWh

 

Quote came back as follows:

 

  • Trina 430W Vertex S+ Panel - Translucent & Bifacial  x10
  • Sungrow 1-Phase 6kW High Voltage Hybrid Inverter w/SA x1
  • Balance Of Systems x1
  • Mounting Kit 1kW Tin Roof - TAS-HOP-STN-42 x4.30
  • Sungrow 9.6kWh SBR Hybrid Battery System (Emergency Backup Circuits Included) - SBR096 x1
  • Sungrow Battery Accessory Pack A-ST-02594 x1
  • Inspection Inspection x1
  • Meter Installation and DG Application Meter Installation x1
  • Labour Charges x1

 

 

$26,651.27

 

Discount if moved on it before xmas, with a 50% deposit required

 

$24,785.66

 

What wasn't included was edge protection setup for the installer ~ $1900-2300+GST

 

Thoughts, comments, questions please.

 

I have done 'some' reading, and feel that the Sungrow products are the way to go. Lightforce appear quite reputable and it wasn't a hard sell technique, more the simulated facts. 

 

Thank you.

 

 





The little things make the biggest difference.


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3170224 10-Dec-2023 09:08
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@Shindig, That quote seems reasonable and I assume the 6,000 odd kWh is estimated annual production.The only thing I would recommended adding is a power diverter such as a Paladin assuming you have a HWC. The extra cost of a diverter in a solar installation is the single best component in terms of minimising export and although you've opted for battery backup I would suggest a diverter would be a preferable way to power a HWC than via a battery.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


billgates

4705 posts

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  #3170361 10-Dec-2023 15:33
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That's a fair price IMO for the system if you really are a light user and your winter usage is covered which would be lowest amount of sun. If not, I would at the very least add 2kW worth of more panels. Sungrow is a good brand and there NZ support is good.





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

eonsim
398 posts

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  #3170444 10-Dec-2023 21:45
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Looks decent, though I'd also recommend a few extra panels bump it up to 12 or 14 and you'll be thankful in winter...


Shindig
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  #3170514 11-Dec-2023 08:58
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OK, thanks for those comments.

 

I'll go back to LF and ask for a requote on the 2 and 4 panel additions.

 

Do you think I need to seek other quotes, or this is probably a decent price for the hardware and install?

 

 





The little things make the biggest difference.


Shindig
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  #3170526 11-Dec-2023 09:36
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They are quick to come back!

 

12-panels (2 on the west side) - $28,549.56 inc GST retail price - $26,479.90 inc GST discounted price

 

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

14-panels (4 on the west side) - $30,203.46 inc GST retail price - $27,938.46 inc GST discounted price

 

 

 




The little things make the biggest difference.


billgates

4705 posts

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  #3170527 11-Dec-2023 09:38
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I got 5 quotes and 3 were a complete rip off and 2 were competitive so I would recommend 3 quotes atleast. You can keep Trina and SunGrow as your baseline for hardware for other quote's. Also regarding scaffolkding cost, thats high. I mean you can go buy a high quality mobile commercial scaffolding from bunnings for $2400 incl GST that you get to keep for life. 

 

Gorilla Commercial Scaffold Starter Pack - Bunnings New Zealand





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

HarmLessSolutions
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  #3170549 11-Dec-2023 10:17
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@Shindig, I note that the production statistics are displayed (on the screenshots you've posted) but not the consumption amounts. The key to maximising the ROI on any solar installation is to consume as much as possible of your generation. Any 'spillage' to export is wastage in terms of the value gained from your generation whereas self consumption by your appliances, HWC heating, battery charging (static or EVs) and other household usage offsets electricity that would otherwise require purchasing at retail price incl. GST so effectively that is the value gained from 'self consumed' electricity.

 

In our case our Paladin diverter ensures that the first 3kW (HWC element) or as much as is available of our generation is used to heat our HWC, and beyond that our Evnex EVSE diverts up to 7.2kW into our EVs. Both these devices monitor our mains activity and then act to prevent 'escape' of our precious generation. As a result our current month's Octopus account is tracking at close to zero, if not credit, which considering we charge 2 EVs ( Polestar2 & Leaf), have pumped water supply, 2x 700L chest freezers and a 250L HWC is an indication of the success of our system's design.

 

Having had a 5.2kW PV set-up at our last property that we struggled to reach 50% self consumption from manually despite charging a Leaf in a WFH situation as much as we were able to the advantages of devices that maximise self consumption automatically is a complete game changer. Our self consumption now from an 8.2kW system is closer to 65% which combined with Octopus's great FIT rate makes for a 10 year payback on a system that we have invested close to $30K on, with no battery storage beyond the EVs.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


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