Buying without building consent/CCC?

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#1641133 27-Sep-2016 10:58

Have you obtained a LIM report? Perhaps you should ask the council about the discrepancy between their plans and reality? Perhaps you should do the same with the builder/seller - maybe he's selling up to avoid problems...

allio

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#1641202 27-Sep-2016 11:59

These dodgy, problematic houses are selling at very little discount because the market is so crazy and people are desperate. As soon as the market turns to favour buyers rather than sellers - and it will - it will be impossible to shift this house on without taking a huge haircut.

I know you can see the dollar signs spinning in your eyes, but there's nothing stopping the current owner from adding another bedroom either, and they're choosing to unload it instead. Someone's the fool here, and I don't think it's the vendor.

Horseychick

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#1641219 27-Sep-2016 12:44

A really interesting discussion. I've looked at quite a few rural properties in West/North West Auckland that had 'unconsented' areas although these were generally granny flat type conversions. We walked away from them for the reasons people have given previously. We also looked at a property 3 years ago with 16acres, large flat roofed house etc. The house had no code of compliance and was likely a leaky home based on the flat roof and plaster construction. I literally laughed at the Agent when he told me they were asking $1.8m for it! Needless to say someone else did buy it for close to the asking price and with the intention of bowling the house and re-building so as someone else mentioned - the value of the land sometimes makes it worthwhile. This particularly property still has the house standing and no new one built, went on the market recently and received an offer of $3.5m. *sigh* probably just as well it was way outside my budget at the time.

mattwnz

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#1641220 27-Sep-2016 12:44

Unless they sell quickly after adding rooms and doing it up while the market is still strong. Although it would likely be subject to CGT

richms

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#1641230 27-Sep-2016 12:57

House beside me was bought and was then flat out with contractors converting basement garage into a 3rd bedroom. Went on the market pretty soon afterwards and then all the open homes were cancelled and it was rented out. I suspect that they got caught by the would have to pay tax on it changes.

Anyway, everytime it rains like recently in auckland, I see that the people in it have to move their furniture out of the downstairs room and a carpet cleaning van turns up. Im guessing that they never bothered to do anything about drainage when doing the conversion.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

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#1641311 27-Sep-2016 14:56

IANAL so don't know all the legal issues surrounding unconsneted works. But if you go to most council websites, they call unconsented building work that needed a consent ILLEGAL. This means that if you buy a house that has consented work that should have been consented, you would then be liable for it. Espeically if you were aware of this work being consented when you purchased it. Although you should be able to ick it up with due diligence, eg the councils records not matching what was built. I believe the council can take action against you as the owner. He is story about a council taking action http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11351364

The Building Act 2004 exists to protect people from dangerous building work. Council's role is to ensure compliance with the Act and Building Code.

At the very least I think you should make the sale conditional on the owner getting a certificate of acceptance on the unconsented work. I suspect any good lawyer will advise you to do something similar. That way you protect yourself against the council coming after you, as they have then signed off as being happy with the work. At the moment you don't know what action the council may take. Also I believe that if you buy the house through a trust, the trustee may not allow you to buy an consented house. So would be very surprised that a bank would lend due to the risks. But you need to talk to your lawyer.

mattwnz

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#1641312 27-Sep-2016 14:59

richms:

House beside me was bought and was then flat out with contractors converting basement garage into a 3rd bedroom. Went on the market pretty soon afterwards and then all the open homes were cancelled and it was rented out. I suspect that they got caught by the would have to pay tax on it changes.

Anyway, everytime it rains like recently in auckland, I see that the people in it have to move their furniture out of the downstairs room and a carpet cleaning van turns up. Im guessing that they never bothered to do anything about drainage when doing the conversion.

That is terrible for the people renting it. Flooding and leaking is the worst, and can take months to dry out if not done properly with commercial dehumidifiers. Hope their health isn't suffering. The council should probably be getting involved, as it sounds like something has prematurely failed within the durability term set in the building code, and when that happens I believe thee council has to be notified.

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#1641348 27-Sep-2016 16:33

Horseychick:
I've looked at quite a few rural properties in West/North West Auckland that had 'unconsented' areas although these were generally granny flat type conversions.

An interesting point about north Auckland (Rodney, I think) is that (vague recollection here from third-hand story) their records office burnt down in the early noughties and all building records for the area were lost. Apparently an awful lot of building work suddenly became fully consented, unfortunately the records to prove it were destroyed so no-one could prove it wasn't...

Zeon

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#1644888 3-Oct-2016 19:33

Hey guys, just an update. Apparently there was a record of the addon work but it was not obvious. The lawyer reassured that it was consented - thanks for the recommendation to focus on this point. That being said the garage definitely doesn't have a consent but since it was pre-1992 the bank issued insurance and a mortgage. The sale is now unconditional so she will have a house in a few weeks!

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Batman

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#1645707 5-Oct-2016 10:11

Guys can someone explain to me what is the relevance of the Building Act 1992? Ie in LIM there is a section that says no building consents have ever been issued. NExt section it says building Permits that were issued before the Building Act 1992 ... ??

How is the permit different from the consent in terms of whether the building work complies to standards?

Disrespective

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#1645789 5-Oct-2016 11:39

http://www.buildingsurveyors.co.nz/faq-items/what-is-the-difference-between-a-building-permit-and-a-building-consent/

Have a look at this. It just explains that pre 1992 Permit was the word to use. Post 1992 it was called a consent. The LIM is just delineating the difference between these two cases.

Permits and Consents do not necessarily have the same regulations attached to the work that was carried out. The Building Act (now 2004) helps to define these rules and regulations.

Batman

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#1645800 5-Oct-2016 11:56

Do permits have a less stringent compliance because no completion certificate was needed? Or to put it the other way round, does one need to be more careful when checking for alterations made after 1992?

Disrespective

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#1645844 5-Oct-2016 12:43

You simply need to be more aware that work done prior to 1992 wasn't necessarily (probably wasn't) done to a standard that would match what is required of the laws today. The territorial authorities recognise this by not persecuting owners of properties which had work done prior to 1992 that didn't get a permit in the same way as they would if the work was done post 1992, and didn't receive a consent.

Clear as mud?

richms

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#1645848 5-Oct-2016 12:50

I still find the whole idea they are called consents or permits to be disgusting. Having to ask permission to build on your own land is BS.

Richard rich.ms

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#1645851 5-Oct-2016 12:55

joker97:

How can the "builder" - who presumably knows at least one or two things about building consents, just go ahead and add 4 living areas without permit? I just don't understand ...

That's what many builders do. The sort you don't want to hire.

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