Rental WOF - Maybe also for owner occupied housing as well.

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Rental WOF - Maybe also for owner occupied housing as well.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2186253 24-Feb-2019 11:59

The details seem to be easier that your OP? Or do the stair lighting etc still apply? I agree we want better houses, but there needs to be common sense. Your OP stated that it needs celling insulation, and if the ceiling is not accessible it needs to be. Well, are we talking 10k here????

We do need a minimum, but it smacks of someone in an office writing down an ideal rental. Being clean, and dry and safe should just be about repairs and a few updates. It doesn't need to be a Health Award winning home, it just needs to be dry and warm.

They should have fired the 22yo graduate and hired a sparky, plumber and builder to draft the report.

alasta

6703 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#2186257 24-Feb-2019 12:12

The "within 90 days of a new tenancy" bit is interesting. That may well result in rents being kept low for existing tenants to avoid compliance with the new standards, and higher rents for new tenancies to cover the extra cost. That, in turn, will reduce the turnover of rental properties.

gchiu

1211 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2186283 24-Feb-2019 13:58

And let's hope that any requirements have an evidence base to make sure that the requirement has a meaningful outcome. Insulating where it has no benefit only helps the installer and leads eventually to higher rents.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2186334 24-Feb-2019 14:25

gchiu:
And let's hope that any requirements have an evidence base to make sure that the requirement has a meaningful outcome. Insulating where it has no benefit only helps the installer and leads eventually to higher rents.

Fully agree. No point in forcing landlords to spend money installing heaters. If those heaters are no cheaper to run than a $20 plug in heater. On the other hand, if it is going to cost big $$$ to install efficient heating. The landlord would just increase the rent, or decide not to rent the property.

I just dont trust politicians to be able to properly balance such competing requirements.

gchiu

1211 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2186335 24-Feb-2019 14:27

Tailrisk's analysis of the proposed healthy homes regulations is here http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/NZIER_CostBenefitAnalysis.pdf

Kickinbac

427 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2186336 24-Feb-2019 14:28

Aredwood:
And the government has announced new healthy homes standards.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/110823014/owners-of-rental-properties-have-until-2024-to-reach-healthy-homes-standards-government-announces

From the article

All rental homes will be required to:

Have a heater that can heat the main living area to 18 degrees Celsius.
Have ceiling and underfloor insulation that either meets the 2008 Building Code insulation standard, or (for existing ceiling insulation) has a minimum thickness of 120 millimetres.
Kitchens and bathrooms will be required to have extraction fans or rangehoods.
Install a ground moisture barrier to stop moisture rising into the home where there is an enclosed subfloor space.
Have adequate drainage and guttering to prevent water entering the home.
Block draughts that make a home harder to heat.

Compliance timeline:

July 1, 2021 – Private landlords must ensure rental properties comply with the healthy home standards within 90 days of any new tenancy, and all boarding houses must comply with the healthy home standards.

July 1, 2023 – All Housing New Zealand houses and registered Community Housing Providers houses must comply with the healthy home standards.

July 1, 2024 – All rental homes must comply with the healthy home standards.

Although better quality rentals are a worthy goal. If rangehoods are required to be vented outside. That could be extremely expensive for lots of properties, if the stove doesn't back onto an external wall. While those rangehoods that recirculate the air are pretty much pointless.

And if heating would consist of providing electric resistance heaters. Then that would also be pointless for tenants.

Depending on what rules they implement for properties that cannot be easily upgraded. There could end up being alot of houses that would no longer be allowed to be rented out. Which in turn would make rents more expensive.

If there is a rush to sell non compliant homes. Sure, some tenants might be able to buy instead (and good on those that do so). But the higher rents will remain until the government does something serious about reducing land costs and excessive red tape. If the rules require rangehoods vented to outside, and heating other than resistance heaters. Then lots of apartments would be non compliant. Yet a flood of apartments on the market won't help first home buyers much. As the banks almost always have stricter lending rules for them.

It’s interesting because as an owner there is no requirement to upgrade my house which would have the same health benefits. My own house has non-compliant insulation, no bathroom exhaust fans, the rangehood is recirculating. All things I want/need to upgrade as money allows. I don’t own any rental property but believe that a landlord (business owner) must provide a healthy environment for their tenant (customer).

Gordy7

1906 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2186342 24-Feb-2019 14:38

Ban unflued gas and kerosene heaters... Condensation wrecks window frames, causes mould and is bad for health.

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#2186368 24-Feb-2019 14:55

Labour politicians (especially) think they can legislate problems away without consequences. It is the lefty brain perhaps? Lacks commonsense.

The unintended consequences of this one will be more families and people being homeless .... people will be worse off than before.

And, it is an excellent point that many people who own their own homes do not have the things labour are trying to get into rentals.

alasta

6703 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#2186408 24-Feb-2019 17:07

Aredwood:

Fully agree. No point in forcing landlords to spend money installing heaters. If those heaters are no cheaper to run than a $20 plug in heater. On the other hand, if it is going to cost big $$$ to install efficient heating. The landlord would just increase the rent, or decide not to rent the property.

I just dont trust politicians to be able to properly balance such competing requirements.

According to this page it sounds like there will generally need to be a heat pump in the living room and an extraction fan in both the kitchen and bathroom.

How much would it cost to install all of those things? If we assume that it would be about $10k then I would expect rents to only go up by about $10 a week to cover a 5% return on that capex, but this still feels like the sort of policy that tends to have unintended consequences.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2186440 24-Feb-2019 18:01

alasta:
Aredwood:

Fully agree. No point in forcing landlords to spend money installing heaters. If those heaters are no cheaper to run than a $20 plug in heater. On the other hand, if it is going to cost big $$$ to install efficient heating. The landlord would just increase the rent, or decide not to rent the property.

I just dont trust politicians to be able to properly balance such competing requirements.

According to this page it sounds like there will generally need to be a heat pump in the living room and an extraction fan in both the kitchen and bathroom.

How much would it cost to install all of those things? If we assume that it would be about $10k then I would expect rents to only go up by about $10 a week to cover a 5% return on that capex, but this still feels like the sort of policy that tends to have unintended consequences.

Very interesting. As lots of apartments have body corp rules that dont allow any new holes to be drilled in the cladding. Due to fears of water leaks. No new heatpumps or rangehoods for them. Owner occupiers in such buildings will oppose changes to the body corp rules. As they would likely prefer the building to be owner occupiers only. Although renting to family members would still be ok in that situation.

How will open plan kitchen/ lounge / dining room type properties be considered? Does that count as a large lounge? Is there going to be a performance requirement? Or will the rules be something along the lines of NZ BC G5 Which is floor area X a factor. And the answer is the heating capacity required.

Since it says that electric heaters less than 2.4KW are ok. It will encourage tenants to rent larger houses. As landlords will have to provide a heatpump or wood burner instead.

gchiu

1211 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2186441 24-Feb-2019 18:04

i think we need to have evidence that tenants will actually turn on the heat pump before they get installed at large cost. As for fans, they should be installed if you want to avoid moisture damage to houses.

http://www.level.org.nz/energy/space-heating/heat-pumps/

Although heat pumps are an efficient form of heating, installing a heat pump is not likely to reduce heating costs. In a BRANZ study of 160 households with heat pumps, more people said their energy costs had increased since acquiring a heat pump than those who said their energy costs had fallen. Only 15% described running costs as excellent. Occupants keep their homes warmer than previously.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2186443 24-Feb-2019 18:10

gchiu:

i think we need to have evidence that tenants will actually turn on the heat pump before they get installed at large cost. As for fans, they should be installed if you want to avoid moisture damage to houses.

You would think a landlord would do what they can for moisture control. As the property that they are managing is their own

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2186446 24-Feb-2019 18:18

gchiu:

i think we need to have evidence that tenants will actually turn on the heat pump before they get installed at large cost.

You dont need evidence, you need the heatpump or whatever is required.

Im not sure where this all goes as many seem to want a rental to be safe, warm, and dry, but not to have that cost any money? If the rental market was overflowing, the market will manage that, leaving unhealthy homes vacant. As its the opposite now, some landlords won't play ball, but then the Govt gets slammed for its regulations? Can't really have it both ways.

I've had rentals, it was in my interest to keep them tidy, clean, and current. If some landlords have DIY specials they are renting, I guess that's one way to raise the yield, but how bad is this issue? is it a case that these bad regulations are not going to affect most landlords, just the ratbags who rent high and maintain low?

gchiu

1211 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2186453 24-Feb-2019 18:40

tdgeek:

gchiu:

i think we need to have evidence that tenants will actually turn on the heat pump before they get installed at large cost.

You dont need evidence, you need the heatpump or whatever is required.

Well, yes you do need evidence before you legislate that landlords are going to have to spend $5k or whatever to install a heatpump if the target population are never going to turn it on because they can't afford it. And what evidence we do have suggests that heat pumps end up increasing the electricity bills over the use of resistance heaters. Instead of just warming the person, they instead warm the whole room so you're paying for something you may not have wanted. I suspect some tenants will just get a $30 heater, and use that instead of the shiny new heat pump on the wall.

alasta

6703 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#2186493 24-Feb-2019 20:36

When smoke detectors became compulsory there were a lot of anecdotes about tenants taking them down and removing the batteries. So, it's very likely that some tenants will be too dumb to understand what an extraction fan is and why they need to use it.

I live in a building with two tenancies - mine being downstairs. Yesterday morning was a warm dry day with no condensation on my windows whatsoever, yet when I walked up the path to the street I could see one of the upstairs tenants' bedroom windows absolutely drowning in condensation. God knows what they are doing up there to generate that moisture in a well insulated and ventilated building.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7