What's reasonable - Dishwasher Fault

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networkn

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#229122 8-Feb-2018 17:31

3 Years ago we purchased a top of the line Bosch Dishwasher. Had it installed and within a few days, weren't happy because dishes weren't clean.

Called the retailer and complained they told us to calll Bosch.

Spoke to a gruff gentleman who clearly didn't want a bar of it. Told us that we had to use the longest hottest wash every wash as NZ conditions didn't support the type of tablets that were in circulation. We told him we felt it wasn't reasonable to require a 3 Hour load for every wash.

He then told us that he saw so few faults he didn't think it was likely a fault and that we weren't doing it right, but when I insisted it was brand new, he said the only option was for BSH to take back the washer to the workshop for an undetermined timeframe and they didn't have a loan one.

We are a young and very family so being without a dishwasher was untenable and I was so busy I just couldn't be without it. We decided we didn't have time to chase it and have put up with the fact it often doesn't wash dishes 2-3 times a week properly at least.

October last year the thing stopped working altogether and called BSH. Able called us and said there would be a service fee, which we refused and they refused to come out. I called BSH and got hold of a guy who said it was standard process. I told him that a 3 Year old washer was still under warranty and I wasn't paying. He agreed and waived the fee (which he insisted was refundable). They came out, determined the fault, and said they didn't have parts, and it would be 4-6 weeks to get another part from Germany. I said I wasn't happy with the DW and the repair timeframe and requested a replacement under warranty, or a refund. 3 Days passed and I called back. They said they had magically found a part and would come and install it. We were 12 days with no dish washer.

At the time I spoke to the guy about the power button, I spent quite some time covering off our previous issues with dishes not being clean, he was knowledgeable and said he felt it was a fault, and after the power button was fixed, he would send a BSH engineer onsite with a plastic cover so they could watch the action and determine where things went wrong. We never heard back and followed up the week later, no-one called back. It's coming up xmas time and we were so busy we couldn't follow up any more.

Still nothing most of January, and when I followed up 18 days ago, I said I wasn't happy and I'd like a replacement. They refused and sent someone onsite, who confirms that not only is it not ok for it not to clean dishes, but the moisture on our dishes after each load is also not right, but he doesn't know what the fault is. He said they wanted it back at HQ to thoroughly test and they would arrange a loan unit, but they didn't have one presently he would be in touch when he had one. Nothing for a few days, I call the retailer, explain the situation and insist on a replacement as we don't want to have our one repaired, we have no confidence in it, and it was an expensive dishwasher that should be trouble free. He agrees and says he will go back to BSH and come back to us. I called back 2 days after he still hasn't got in touch with them, says he will get in touch today and call me the following day. I re-iterate we aren't happy for a repair, he says it's at BSH's sole descretion. I disagree and state he is the retailer, my relationship is with him and I expect them to rectify.

He gets back in touch today, saying BSH are insisting on the device back again and won't hear anything more about it.

Am I being unreasonable in refusing a repair and a loan unit given the issues and amount of time we have had issues with it? Am I obliged to take a loan washer and let them have our one for an undetermined time or can take this to the next level?

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#1953761 8-Feb-2018 17:40

I think they're correct that its their call whether to repair or replace.

Agree that it's disruptive being without a dishwasher, but in my view it's getting a bit beyond CGA to require a loaner, it's more into the territory of extended warranties

Reflects pretty poorly on Bosch overall

gregmcc

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#1953762 8-Feb-2018 17:45

I think it's time to get the retailer involved, you paid retail expect the retailer to deal with the problem and provide a loaner while it's away been fixed. Get the retailer to set a reasonable time for it to be fixed and hold them to it, if they fail then reject the repaired unit and only except a refund.

networkn

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#1953764 8-Feb-2018 17:49

gregmcc:

I think it's time to get the retailer involved, you paid retail expect the retailer to deal with the problem and provide a loaner while it's away been fixed. Get the retailer to set a reasonable time for it to be fixed and hold them to it, if they fail then reject the repaired unit and only except a refund.

The retailer is involved, they are saying they have to do what BSH say. I have argued it.

BSH have said they will arrange a loan unit, but won't commit to a timeframe due to the intermittent nature of the fault.

Our issue is that a simple power board took 12 days and legal action threats to get resolved, they originally wanted 4-6 weeks.

We have no confidence in this model, it reviews badly overseas, parts are clearly not readily available and we feel that now is probably our best chance of a replacement, as if it fails again in 3 years, it's going to be that much further down the track.

I want to be reasonable, but a dishwasher is essential in our household. We can use it 3 times in a busy day, and having to check every dish every time, is a real PITA.

chewster

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#1953766 8-Feb-2018 17:56

I mean, i wouldn't expect a loaner from a retailer for anything being repaired, its a bit annoying, and it can reflect very positively on the retailer if they do offer a loaner appliance. You have a kitchen sink no? Time to teach the kids how to wash dishes by hand.

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gregmcc

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#1953767 8-Feb-2018 18:02

Looks like your only available option is to reject the dishwasher.

Write the retailer a nice letter requiring the dishwasher be repaired within a reasonable time frame, lets say 2-3 weeks with a loan unit supplied while it is away been repaired, advise them that should this repair time frame or repair quality not be achieved then you will be rejecting the dishwasher and expect a refund.

I would suggest you have a good read of the CGA and quote the relevant sections in your letter.

It's the retailers responsibility to deal with this, if bosh are mucking about it's not your problem, it's the retailers problem. Worst case if retailer fails to follow through on a timely repair you may have to file a claim with the disputes tribunal, usually retailers are quite responsive when presented with a nicely worded letter that quote relevant sections of the CGA

surfisup1000

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#1953770 8-Feb-2018 18:13

nickb800:

but in my view it's getting a bit beyond CGA to require a loaner, it's more into the territory of extended warranties

Good question, I'd like to know the answer to this.

Consequential damages... does it apply to renting a replacement during repairs? It might, might not. The law does not really address this case so it may depend on your adjudicator.

Maybe this is purposefully left out, as each case is different. I can think of cases where it should and should not apply.

Aredwood

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#1953980 8-Feb-2018 23:50

@networkn If you are in Auckland, I could probably lend you a dishwasher if need be. Would have to test it first as it is my spare one that hasn't been used for over a year.

Also what is the model number on your dishwasher? As my spare one is also a Bosch. And it might be the same generation as your one.

JayADee

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#1953996 9-Feb-2018 06:53

Aredwood: @networkn If you are in Auckland, I could probably lend you a dishwasher if need be. Would have to test it first as it is my spare one that hasn't been used for over a year.

Also what is the model number on your dishwasher? As my spare one is also a Bosch. And it might be the same generation as your one.

How kind!

Boy it sounds like a nightmare. What a lousy pain in the neck.

BlinkyBill

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#1954001 9-Feb-2018 07:31

A fault developed 3 years ago, you choose to cease progressing a review for a couple of years because you object to a fee, and now you are having further issues?

That is not reasonable behavior.

Bosch are incompetent? Sounds like it.

You want a loaner because you can’t live wi;trout a dishwasher? That sounds unreasonable.

Poor attitudes on both sides; not surprised you are now in the state you are in.

BlinkyBill

networkn

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#1954153 9-Feb-2018 11:14

@blinkybill

I think you need to re-read what I wrote, you have the wrong end of the stick.

1) It wouldn't clean dishes properly from the get go, within a few weeks at least. I raised it with BSH who basically said as it was an intermittent fault they would take it back to the workshop for an underdetermined time, with no loaner. As a very young family at the time, we couldn't be without a DW for sterilizing things. We decided at the time, having a few dirty dishes each load was better than no dish washer at all. The problem with a problem like this, is it's intermittent. Sometimes it will wash 3 loads fine, then 3 badly. It's like death by 1000 paper cuts.

2) The second fault developed 2+ years later they said it would take 4-6 weeks to get parts, and told us they would charge an inspection fee, which in conjuction with BSH they agreed to waive after I stated that the power button couldn't be something we broke, and they agreed it was definately warranty. We took that opportunity to re-raise the fact it wasn't cleaning dishes properly. The repair of the power button took 12 days, after we told them we wanted a replacement as 4-6 weeks wasn't a reasonable repair time. They also agreed that after the power button was repaired they would have someone come onsite to examine the washer action. They didn't do this until 6 weeks later I called up again (twice).

3) They have come out and done the examination and say they can't see a fault, but agree it's not working properly. They have told us that the water left over on the dishes isn't normal either, something that has been a problem since day 1 that we found annoying but didn't know was "abnormal". They don't know what's wrong with it, and want it back to the workshop for an undetermined time. They will arrange a loaner, but they don't know when they will have one and as such we don't know when our DW will be working.

Our argument is that the timeframes for repair and the type of faults we have had with it are significant, and given the way they have handled the issues raised, we have no confidence in them or this device. We feel they don't keep parts locally for this model, which means future repairs would be lengthy. This DW reviews badly but it's replacement has a much much better reputation.

networkn

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#1954158 9-Feb-2018 11:17

Aredwood: @networkn If you are in Auckland, I could probably lend you a dishwasher if need be. Would have to test it first as it is my spare one that hasn't been used for over a year.

Also what is the model number on your dishwasher? As my spare one is also a Bosch. And it might be the same generation as your one.

Hi Aredwood, that is an extremely kind offer, thank you. BSH have said they will provide a loaner, however they don't have a timeframe, but I have applied more pressure this morning and will see what comes of it.

At the end of the day resolution of this issue is the retailers responsibilty. The guy I am dealing with says he understands the CGA well, but my feeling is that he doesn't, since he keeps saying he cannot do anything until BSH approve it.

BTR

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#1954168 9-Feb-2018 11:53

At least you have a dish washer..... I still have to hand wash

networkn

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#1954354 9-Feb-2018 13:50

BTR:

At least you have a dish washer..... I still have to hand wash

Along with a decent washing machine, I wouldn't even consider living without one.

networkn

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#1954356 9-Feb-2018 13:51

Is 2-3 Weeks really reasonable to repair an Appliance? I would be embarrassed if it took us 2-3 weeks to repair a computer in any but the most extreme circumstances. I would never leave the customer in a situation of being without one over the period either.

maxeon

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#1954360 9-Feb-2018 14:01

I have experience similar to you with Bosch. Check my post here and here.

In my case I was dealing with manufacturer (Bosch) directly because I did not have a retailer.

However when you have a retailer in between like Harvey Norman it's easier to sort as you can vent all your frustration with them for a replacement.

My 7 year old Washing Machine was replaced by Samsung (via Harvey Norman) under CGA to a brand new one as the repair is too expensive.

In the case of Bosch they argued that they are only liable for supplying parts for free and repair should be paid by consumer. However Disputes Tribunal override that and said replace or repair at full expense.

For the Bosch dishwasher problem I had, the parts were about 200 dollars and the labor costs for my repair was nearly the brand new price of the device itself.

For DT hearing, the head of customer services for Bosch has attended and I would have hoped he released it by now - but clearly not.

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