2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2676620 18-Mar-2021 17:38

Got my first jab today. Needle was very small and incredibly sharp - noticeably more so than many other innoculations that I have had. Much more of a "scratch" than a sting.

Normally a few hours after a jab my arm will feel like it's had a good punch - nothing like that at all today, very happy. Bring on round two.

DS248

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#2676624 18-Mar-2021 17:45

chatterbox:

...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300255592/transtasman-travel-bubble-why-its-the-right-time-to-start

From the article, since the original 40 exports to NZ in the first few months there have only been 2 exports that time from Victoria and 1 from NSW. Even Sydney with a high tolerance shut to Victoria then.

This means Western Australia - 1 border case since the 1st wave, Northern Territory - never had a locally acquired case, South Australia - the November Parrafield cluster which peaked to 33 and back to 0 in 3 and a bit weeks with a 3 day lockdown, Tasmania - not sure they've ever taken a repatriation flight but had almost zero cases (couple of expected Melbourne positives in hotel quarantine during that outbreak), ACT - despite being surrounded by New South Wales had a couple of law abiding diplomats positive but no community transmission in forever, Queensland - their first border failure this year and a more recent 2nd border failure leading to a single doctor being positive (are we including the returned traveller that infected another returned traveller in hotel quarantine?) could have been open to New Zealand since last year without exporting cases to each other.

If facts don't sway people nothing will. Basically the border will open and people will whinge and then after a month go "oh, nothing happened, hooray Labour" without looking at recent facts because it became political for some people. Or at least irrationally driven.

I see people post irrational fears about opening to Australia. One was concerned Australians wouldn't download the tracer app and scan in when Australia has 8 different tracer apps for their states & territories. Each of the states and territories have their own apps among others and businesses are more likely to make you scan in than in NZ which relies on displaying the QR code at the door and literally praying people scanned in. I prefer a system that asks you to show your green tick or points at the QR code or sign in register. Neither system is perfect but NZ appears to have a false sense of security above that which exists in Australia.

Regardless the public health in both countries seems adequate to squash any tiny clusters.

I'm pro - Australian bubble. I'm not necessarily pro opening to the rest of the world just yet! The excuses from Labour government don't seem public health related? If you get caught in a snap lock down it's 3-5 days. Whoopee. Welcome to Covid Normal. I've never seen a social media post blaming a government because they were caught in a snap lockdown. 3 days is nothing. 5 days is a PITA. 7 days is ......

I find the NZ public fear driven and no longer science driven when it comes to bubbles.

Agree. If anything, the current situation is increasing our risk. Bubble with AU should have occurred before now, not in 6 weeks time. Sure there are issues but there has been plenty of time to sort out the protocols etc. As has been said, the delay has been political, not risk based.

Fred99

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#2676630 18-Mar-2021 17:52

DS248:

If anything, the current situation is increasing our risk.

That is an absurd conclusion.

tdgeek

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#2676633 18-Mar-2021 17:57

mattwnz:

IMO It all depends on how fast we do our vaccine rollout. We have barely started, while some countries have over 50% of their population vaccinated. SO we are vulnerable and risk lockdowns until he have a good percentage vaccinated.

Right now we are Covid free, the odd MIQ case, so we are not very vulnerable at all. And if supplies is an issue we wont be in the queue of virtually every other country. We are low priority. AUS travel bubble, Michael Baker said the risk is very low. Its like having a travel bubble NZ with NZ which is what we have.

100% safe or manageable risk, the right answer is in the middle. As travel starts to ramp up, then it needs to be heading towards perfection, where the risk starts to increase but hopefully we are at the same time decreasing risk with the vaccine rollout.

tdgeek

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#2676634 18-Mar-2021 17:59

alasta:

The problem is that the vaccine requires two doses, so you would have to incentivise people twice. I have a bad feeling that a lot of people will get the first dose but the motivation will have worn off three weeks later when they are supposed to get the second dose.

That's too bad. We can't babysit everyone, and that lot will get free herd immunity from us, and they choose to be at risk.

tdgeek

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#2676635 18-Mar-2021 18:02

DS248:

tdgeek: This isnt bad, and up to date

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita

Not up to date for NZ data. That site and the Financial Times Covid-19 vaccine tracker show NZ data as at 10 Mar.

NZ Herald Vaccine Tracker website has more up to date NZ data (updated to 17 Mar data yesterday shortly after the figures were announced by Hipkins).

Thanks. So we are a bit better than that site, thats good. My point was AUS vs NZ. They aren't number one, so why a comparison? Both are well down the list, and thats ok as our current risk is way down the list as well.

tdgeek

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#2676637 18-Mar-2021 18:10

DS248:

Agree. If anything, the current situation is increasing our risk. Bubble with AU should have occurred before now, not in 6 weeks time. Sure there are issues but there has been plenty of time to sort out the protocols etc. As has been said, the delay has been political, not risk based.

Who I also agree with Chatterbox, the current situation is conservative. Thats not increasing the risk. AUS has had its fair share of outbreaks, we have had the odd one too, its not 100% safe, but IMO the bubble can be soon. There are a number of issues though. Masses are here and there on holiday, there is an outbreak, what do you do then? Of if they are in the air, or at check in. Not everyone has 10k spare on holiday to pay for MIQ for the family. I feel the bubble is ready but take a little time to sort out all the scenarios first. Add in the effectiveness of the vaccine, its not 100%. It shouldn't be far away, but get as right as you can before you pul the pin.

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mattwnz

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#2676652 18-Mar-2021 18:19

alasta:

mattwnz:

IMO It all depends on how fast we do our vaccine rollout. We have barely started, while some countries have over 50% of their population vaccinated. SO we are vulnerable and risk lockdowns until he have a good percentage vaccinated.

My suggestion previously about giving everyone $100 voucher to spend when they get vaccinated, isn't to get those that are against vaccination due to thinking it is unsafe. It is to get those who just can't be bothered, or are the type to put this sort of thing off. I know many who are like that.

The problem is that the vaccine requires two doses, so you would have to incentivise people twice. I have a bad feeling that a lot of people will get the first dose but the motivation will have worn off three weeks later when they are supposed to get the second dose.

That is a good point, and having to get two doses may also cause problems, as some people may just get the first and then not the second, as they may think that is enough. So perhaps it would make more sense to only give them the voucher after they have had the second dose. Some people are very time poor, so such a voucher at least gives them a bit of a reward, and it then gets spent in the community.

tdgeek

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#2676656 18-Mar-2021 18:25

No vouchers please. You will upset GV and his light rail, and I'm being serious. Jab vouchers are too much. Covid has cost NZ heaps, in all ways. Govt funds, Business and citizen funds, mental health, and now we want to pay people do get the obvious jab??? Every outbreak we have seen the lines of cars getting tests, no motivation is needed.

DS248

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#2676673 18-Mar-2021 18:26

Fred99:

DS248:

If anything, the current situation is increasing our risk.

That is an absurd conclusion.

I would have expected better from you.

The risk of being infected by CT in AU is no higher than it is in NZ.

People arriving from AU are more likely to be infected in our MIQ than of having been infected in AU before they left. If infected later in the quarantine period, there is a risk of the infection not being detected until after they have left MIQ.

Jase2985

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#2676674 18-Mar-2021 18:26

Ge0rge: Got my first jab today. Needle was very small and incredibly sharp - noticeably more so than many other innoculations that I have had. Much more of a "scratch" than a sting.

Normally a few hours after a jab my arm will feel like it's had a good punch - nothing like that at all today, very happy. Bring on round two.

wait till tomorrow

Oblivian

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#2676680 18-Mar-2021 18:42

There would have to be some serious sweet talking going on.

They don't take any risk likely. They had increased numbers going positive in MiQ. Their responce:

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/australia-suspends-flights-from-papua-new-guinea-amid-spiralling-coronavirus-crisis-c-2371021

Fred99

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#2676681 18-Mar-2021 18:42

DS248:

The risk of being infected by CT in AU is no higher than it is in NZ.

People arriving from AU are more likely to be infected in our MIQ than of having been infected in AU before they left. If infected later in the quarantine period, there is a risk of the infection not being detected until after they have left MIQ.

The % of infected arrivals that go through MIQ will increase, thus increasing overall risk. I agree that trans-Tasman bubble has near zero direct effect, but this indirect effect is substantial. Doesn't matter where the arrivals in MIQ came from, 99% or so are C-19 free anyway and at the same risk of providing an "escape" from MIQ as c-19 free Australians. "Escape" from MIQ has been the source of all CT outbreaks for more than 6 months, and that's resulted in expensive lockdowns - and close calls that could have been much worse.

DS248

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#2676686 18-Mar-2021 18:46

DS248:

Fred99:

DS248: If anything, the current situation is increasing our risk.

That is an absurd conclusion.

I would have expected better from you.

The risk of being infected by CT in AU is no higher than it is in NZ.

People arriving from AU are more likely to be infected in our MIQ than of having been infected in AU before they left. If infected later in the quarantine period, there is a risk of the infection not being detected until after they have left MIQ.

A few stats for perspective.

AU (population ~25.7 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 24 (0.93 per million people). Source https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-source-overseas/aus
NZ (population ~5.1 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 23 (4.5 per million people). Source https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid_cases_2021-03-17.csv (Overseas travel = 'No')

Fred99

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#2676692 18-Mar-2021 19:24

DS248:

A few stats for perspective.

AU (population ~25.7 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 24 (0.93 per million people). Source https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-source-overseas/aus
NZ (population ~5.1 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 23 (4.5 per million people). Source https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid_cases_2021-03-17.csv (Overseas travel = 'No')

So that tells me that our MIQ system probably wasn't working as well as Australia's (over the past 2 months anyway), thus increasing pressure on MIQ when we're struggling by allowing more foreigners from high risk countries in increases NZ's risk of CT from MIQ escape.

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