2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#2715272 29-May-2021 16:55

sbiddle:

Why do I need a vaccine passport?

Surely the microchip that's now in my arm read via 5G when I go through the airport metal detector and they'll know I've been vaccinated?

i had to read it a few times. i think it needs to sync with a 5G phone to give it power, which is why everybody is sticking with 4G, preventing it from being used as a vaccine passport

dafman

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#2715291 29-May-2021 18:05

Why do we need vaccine passports?

Covid anti-vaxers are the equivalent of Life of Brian’s suicide squad IMHO, so if I am vaccinated and have low risk of Covid and, if I do get it, low risk of serious illness, why the need to insist on passports? Each to their own, leave them to natural selection.

mattwnz

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#2715292 29-May-2021 18:09

antonknee:

dafman:

They should have known.

What part of the memo stating “there is a global pandemic, the bubble could be suspended or closed at anytime, do not travel if you cannot accommodate for this” did they not read?

I have zero empathy for Kiwis stuck in Victoria who are now complaining.

Incredibly bold of you to assume people have even read that advice, and if they have read it, paid it any heed whatsoever.

Given people can’t follow simple advice about scanning a QR code, why would they follow this advice? People routinely get given a media platform to whinge about the unfairness of a situation entirely of their own fault, and often end their whinge with “I didn’t know it would happen to me”. This is no different.

Likewise I have zero sympathy for anyone who claims to have been caught out by this - they are learning that in the real world, it happens.

Also pretty sure that when the bubble was announced, that the PM did mention that people would need to plan in case this sort of thing happened. Guessing insurance isn't covering it? To travel during the middle of a pandemic carries increased risks.

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#2715293 29-May-2021 18:12

Scott3:

Batman:

Pre departure testing required. but seriously ... 2 words. vaccine. passport. is that so difficult ... unless ... vaccines will not stop restrictions ... then ... don't let the protesters find out!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-pre-departure-test-for-some-travellers-from-australia/UHV6DFL46WS7DUXCAT3J4X4HWY/

Best vaccines are only 95% effective, so while usefull for reducing odds of transmission roughly 20 fold, arn't perfect to replace other measures.

I don't think New Zealanders or Australians would like to see vaccine passport untill such time as vaccines are readily available to all. But aussie's federal goverment is allready talking about it allowing exception to state border restrictions etc.

The other thing is that can't people be infected with the virus after being immunisised, but he immunization stops them getting a bad dose of it? So they ca still carry it and transfer it? So someone with the virus, but immunized could still transfer the virus into NZ. That is at least my understanding. So I am not sure what benefit a vaccine passport will have in terms of stopping a visitor bringing it in with them.

mattwnz

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#2715295 29-May-2021 18:17

freitasm:

@mattwnz:

I guess people knew the risks though before travelling to Oz, so have planned for this.

That's a joke, right?

LOL, yes there was some sarcasm in it. Although some people obviously would have planned, so maybe staying with friends etc, but some people wouldn't have planned, and may have taken a calculated risk. But the PM did warn people that they would be on their own if the bubble got closed off, or they got caught in a lockdown. You would hope our Australian friends however would look after them over there, like NZers looked after people caught in NZ. I know someone in NZ who had some UK friends stuck with them for several months during lockdown last year, when they were only meant to stay with them for a week.

sbiddle

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#2715298 29-May-2021 18:28

I've seen a few people complaining online about being "stuck" in Victoria, and IMHO it's a great thing media aren't giving them oxygen.

I've booked a trip to Melbourne and Sydney at the end of next month for my birthday to catch up with friends and I'm fully aware of the risks and consequences.

Rikkitic

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#2715301 29-May-2021 18:40

sbiddle:

I've booked a trip to Melbourne and Sydney at the end of next month for my birthday to catch up with friends and I'm fully aware of the risks and consequences.

Good on you. I hope you have a very happy birthday!

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tdgeek

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#2715309 29-May-2021 18:56

mattwnz:

The other thing is that can't people be infected with the virus after being immunisised, but he immunization stops them getting a bad dose of it? So they ca still carry it and transfer it? So someone with the virus, but immunized could still transfer the virus into NZ. That is at least my understanding. So I am not sure what benefit a vaccine passport will have in terms of stopping a visitor bringing it in with them.

What Ive read from multiple sources is that if you are vaccinated you can get infected. You will inhale Covid, your nose and throat will get infected, it will breed. But if you fall in the effective percentage, you wont get sick. There is a risk of transmission. The viral load will be lower, and if you aren't sick you wont be coughing or sneezing, but there are common reasons why we cough or sneeze. The ones that didn't fall into the 1. effective percent can transmit as normal as can 2. kids and 3. anti vaxxers.

1. They act as if they are safe, they arent

2. They congregate at schools

3. They don't use standard protections

Back in the day, efficacy wa seen as around 94% and effectiveness would be around 75%, still good. I now see effectiveness as 94% quoted, so which is it?\

freitasm

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#2715329 29-May-2021 20:23

I was talking about Sydney but WLG was not too bad either. Everyone in Sydney wearing masks as required as soon as you get to the airport. No such a thing at WLG.

Scott3

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#2715334 29-May-2021 21:09

dafman:

Why do we need vaccine passports?

Covid anti-vaxers are the equivalent of Life of Brian’s suicide squad IMHO, so if I am vaccinated and have low risk of Covid and, if I do get it, low risk of serious illness, why the need to insist on passports? Each to their own, leave them to natural selection.

The key point is not everybody can or will be vaccinated. and even for these that can, the vaccines arn't perfect.

At the moment vaccine availability is the key restriction. I am really keen, but not yet eligible to be vaccinated...

As time moves non vaccinated groups will include:

Children - currently med safe has only approved the covid-19 vaccine for 16+ year olds.
Those who are disconnected from healthcare, or just haven't got around to being vaccinated yet.
Those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons.
Those that are hesitant.
Children under 18 (i think) of Conscientious objectors
Conscientious objectors (anti-vaxers).

The last group is really small in number (but vocal). Please don't tar all the groups higher up the list, or those who are are vaccinated, but fall in the small percentage that it doesn't protect them with the same brush.

Also regarding the suicide reference, the case fatality rate of covid-19 in healthy younger people is pretty low (1% or less). Most of the push to get as many people vaccinated as possible is prevent spread, and hence protect others. Same deal with measles - Can't vaccinate newborn babies yet, but by having above xx% of the populating vaccinated, they are protected by very low odds of exposure (as are the small percentage of people who the vaccine doesn't protect).

At the end of the year we should be approaching herd immunity (70 - 80%??? of total population fully vaccinated with pfizer). Herd immunity means enough of the population is vaccinated to get the reproduction number (R0) below 1, meaning any introduction of covid-19 should die out on it's own.

But the issue is that the vaccination won't be evenly / randomly disturbed. As with the measles outbreak a couple of years back, if it finds a group of society with low vaccination rates (Kiddies via preschools could be one), the cluster could grow fairly large.

Vaccine passport's could result in a decrease in cases coming in, reducing the odds of the virus fining it into groups with low vaccination numbers.

Also, there may be a stage where we nearly have herd immunity, and choose to open up, using things like alert level 2 to control inevitable outbreaks. In that case less cases coming in is very desirable.

Could also do like Israel, and use the Vaccine passport as a carrot to get vaccinated. Want to go to the gym, or a large event? - Only allowed if you hold a green pass.

Hopefully by say late 2022 we will get to such a level of vaccination (and the vaccine will be approved for preschoolers) that we can ditch vaccine passports.

mattwnz:

The other thing is that can't people be infected with the virus after being immunisised, but he immunization stops them getting a bad dose of it? So they ca still carry it and transfer it? So someone with the virus, but immunized could still transfer the virus into NZ. That is at least my understanding. So I am not sure what benefit a vaccine passport will have in terms of stopping a visitor bringing it in with them.

There is evidence that the Pfizer jab is 94% effective against asymptomatic transmission.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer-vaccine-shows-94-effectiveness-asymptomatic-transmission-covid/story?id=76389615

So about a 20 fold reduction in risk of bringing the virus into NZ.

Apparently Quarantine in Aussie has a 1:200 leak ratio, so the best vaccines are an order of magnitude worse than Quarantine.

Should note that some vaccines perform far worse than Pfizer.

Potentially there is a time in the future when NZ is willing to allow isolation free travel to NZ, but still want's to keep instances of covid-19 introduction into the community low. Vaccine passports could be a tool that could be used then.

Also they could be used in situations with high risk of contagious diseases, like Cruise ships. - Both reducing the risk of introduction, and concenqental harm from covid-19 if it does come on board.

Batman

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#2715365 29-May-2021 22:20

anyway, Greece launches covid passport from 1 July. let's see how it goes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/28/greece-unveils-first-eu-covid-passport-as-fast-lane-to-travel

richms

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#2715368 29-May-2021 23:02

dafman:

Why do we need vaccine passports?

Covid anti-vaxers are the equivalent of Life of Brian’s suicide squad IMHO, so if I am vaccinated and have low risk of Covid and, if I do get it, low risk of serious illness, why the need to insist on passports? Each to their own, leave them to natural selection.

The idiots will get sick and waste hospital resources. That costs money and takes care and space away from more deserving people with non self inflicted issues.

Richard rich.ms

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#2715414 30-May-2021 10:43

Batman:
anyway, Greece launches covid passport from 1 July. let's see how it goes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/28/greece-unveils-first-eu-covid-passport-as-fast-lane-to-travel

A vaccine passport can only exist when you have open borders, which means accepting endemic Covid will exist.

Because we're not at that point yet we're certainly not going to have vaccine passports anytime soon at least for inbound travel. Hopefully we will have something to provide proof of vaccination soon for those people who do want or need to leave NZ.

Rikkitic

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#2715433 30-May-2021 11:23

Dumb question time: If vaccines boost your antibodies, could not some kind of simple antibody test as you enter a country serve as a 100% vaccine passport?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2715448 30-May-2021 11:32

sbiddle:

A vaccine passport can only exist when you have open borders, which means accepting endemic Covid will exist.

Because we're not at that point yet we're certainly not going to have vaccine passports anytime soon at least for inbound travel. Hopefully we will have something to provide proof of vaccination soon for those people who do want or need to leave NZ.

Given that vaccines are well on the way, and that travellers should get priority, it makes sense to look towards bubble travel being vaccine dependent. Bubbles carry far more risk than MIQ leaks, so why not protect that a bit more?

I think endemic Covid is already accepted. Ashley B has already stated that measures will be in place for 3-5 years.

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