2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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1238 posts

Uber Geek

#2716148 31-May-2021 13:20

frankv:

Handle9: Australia is ~2% vaccinated. ~15% is first dose only. With a 12 week gap between doses it'll take a long time.

I thought a 2 or 3 week gap was optimal?

I recall the Pfizer recommends/suggests that up to 6 weeks between doses is fine if you read the the manufacturers documents.
I could only find this link below to to the Victorian government recommendations for interval when googling now.

(Link to Victoria Government recommendations - word doc)

I one study I read about in nature suggested better immunity with a 12 week break between doses of Pfizer for over 80yo people

tdgeek

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#2716151 31-May-2021 13:38

Another 5 cases in Melbourne. 54 now. 270 places of interest

Of the sick ones in the aged care centre "It's only second-hand reports from the facility, but the people who are sick actually had had a vaccination, so you need two - one is not enough."

KrazyKid

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#2716155 31-May-2021 13:51

I would not be surprised to see Melbourne having a second week of lockdown.

They still don't now how the person who worked in the nursing home got infected.
And with that food delivery driver in the Northern suburbs also testing positive ...

tdgeek

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#2716161 31-May-2021 14:01

KrazyKid:

I would not be surprised to see Melbourne having a second week of lockdown.

They still don't now how the person who worked in the nursing home got infected.
And with that food delivery driver in the Northern suburbs also testing positive ...

Yep, when the places of interest blew out early on, 7 days was a joke. It sounds better. Although they did say the 7 days was to catch up on tracing. Therein lies the problem, its already run away. 270 locations each now widens the contacts, which will expose more locations, the vast majority of arent actually much of a risk, its a growing list of where people went

Batman

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#2716162 31-May-2021 14:11

frankv:

Handle9: Australia is ~2% vaccinated. ~15% is first dose only. With a 12 week gap between doses it'll take a long time.

I thought a 2 or 3 week gap was optimal?

for the person yes

but for the population with supply constrain long delay is better

Scott3

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#2716164 31-May-2021 14:23

Batman:

frankv:

I thought a 2 or 3 week gap was optimal?

for the person yes

but for the population with supply constrain long delay is better

UK initially did the bigger spacing due to supply constraints, but there is [edit] Now evidence that wider dose spacing does lead to greater effectiveness with the AZ vaccine.

Aussie doesn't have supply issues with AZ, so will be going this route for better effectiveness.

wellygary

8312 posts

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#2716169 31-May-2021 14:37

KrazyKid:

I would not be surprised to see Melbourne having a second week of lockdown.

They still don't now how the person who worked in the nursing home got infected.
And with that food delivery driver in the Northern suburbs also testing positive ...

A week will not be enough....

From a midday VIC update

"Six new local cases reported in Victoria
That's on top of the five new cases reported this morning.
We'll hear more about those six new cases this afternoon.
"A public health teams are urgently investigating and interviewing these cases," acting Premier James Merlino said. "

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-31/covid-blog-abc-melbourne-victoria-lockdown-case-numbers-vaccines/100125514

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Fred99

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#2716218 31-May-2021 14:47

Scott3:

UK initially did the bigger spacing due to supply constraints, but *there is not evidence that wider dose spacing does lead to greater effectiveness with the AZ vaccine.

*from clinical trials. (IOW there's no hard evidence either way, but an expectation it probably will)

From an editorial in the BMJ:

Efficacy in elderly people seems excellent after two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.7 A longer gap between doses may improve the long term immune response, as seen with AstraZeneca’s vaccine.3 8 However, as many people in priority subgroups have not yet received a second dose, any substantial waning of protection during the 12 week interval will create problems as the UK starts to reopen.

This is of particular concern for older adults. The phase II trial of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reported a reduced antibody response among participants aged 65-85 compared with those under 55.5 Recent data from Public Health England showed efficacy against symptomatic disease was 57% among adults over 80 after a single dose, increasing to 85% after the second dose.9

So that's indicating for vulnerable groups, it's probably best to stick with the two shot / 21 day spacing. By the time we start bulk vaccination of under 50s, perhaps more will be known.

Fred99

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#2716222 31-May-2021 14:58

wellygary:

KrazyKid:

I would not be surprised to see Melbourne having a second week of lockdown.

They still don't now how the person who worked in the nursing home got infected.
And with that food delivery driver in the Northern suburbs also testing positive ...

A week will not be enough....

From a midday VIC update

"Six new local cases reported in Victoria
That's on top of the five new cases reported this morning.
We'll hear more about those six new cases this afternoon.
"A public health teams are urgently investigating and interviewing these cases," acting Premier James Merlino said. "

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-31/covid-blog-abc-melbourne-victoria-lockdown-case-numbers-vaccines/100125514

Now three cases in one rest home, two workers and one resident (who'd received one shot of AZ), now symptomatic and transferred to hospital for observation. One of the workers hadn't been vaccinated because they were "on holiday".

Different country, but the same "little issue" we had cropped up and let (at least) one slip through the system.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2716225 31-May-2021 15:14

Fred99:

Now three cases in one rest home, two workers and one resident (who'd received one shot of AZ), now symptomatic and transferred to hospital for observation. One of the workers hadn't been vaccinated because they were "on holiday".

Different country, but the same "little issue" we had cropped up and let (at least) one slip through the system.

And I'm guessing it will turn up that the rest home operators had no way to find out if any of the staff/residents were vaccinated or not....

plus ca change c'est la meme chose...

EDIT: Aw Crap, and now we find out at least one of the workers was working in MULTIPLE care homes.....

KrazyKid

1238 posts

Uber Geek

#2716242 31-May-2021 16:08

Fred99:

Efficacy in elderly people seems excellent after two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.7 A longer gap between doses may improve the long term immune response, as seen with AstraZeneca’s vaccine.3 8 However, as many people in priority subgroups have not yet received a second dose, any substantial waning of protection during the 12 week interval will create problems as the UK starts to reopen.

This is of particular concern for older adults. The phase II trial of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reported a reduced antibody response among participants aged 65-85 compared with those under 55.5 Recent data from Public Health England showed efficacy against symptomatic disease was 57% among adults over 80 after a single dose, increasing to 85% after the second dose.9

So that's indicating for vulnerable groups, it's probably best to stick with the two shot / 21 day spacing. By the time we start bulk vaccination of under 50s, perhaps more will be known.

I read this as one vaccine shot is not enough.
If you don't get covid between the two shots you may get a better immune response than if you wait longer between the shots.
But if covid is amongst the population it would be better not to wait in case you catch the virus before you get your second shot.
As only having one shot gives much worse immunity than 2 with a shorter spacing.

This would be particularly true for at risk groups (eg 80+ years).

As you say more info is needed.

This was of interest to me as my wide who works at a DHB was recently booked for jabs with a 6 week space between Pfizer shots.

Fred99

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Uber Geek

#2716258 31-May-2021 17:05

I don't think there's much doubt that two shots are better than one.

The point was in UK and Canada (other countries) with widespread CT, that many people getting one shot immediately was better than many not getting any shot at all when availability is limited.

From what I can see all the Medsafe documents refer to "at least" 21 days between doses with no upper limit specified. 21 days was the interval used in clinical trials.

antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2716291 31-May-2021 18:41

sbiddle:

sbiddle:

…the reality is our new level 4 imposes some pretty significant restrictions above and beyond what we had last year.

The Covid 19 website says this "We have not repeated the same Alert Level 4 information as last year. This is because any possible future move into Alert Level 4 may look different."

Any potential future level 4 lockdown here will very likely impose far stricter rules on movement outside the home for work, essential travel (ie to supermarkets) and exercise along with mandatory mask wearing in all environments outside the home. Many industries and manufacturing businesses that were able to operate last year may also face significant restrictions.

”Very likely…” and “may also” is very different to “the reality is… imposes”. There’s really nothing to suggest level restrictions are or would be more severe than they were last year.

alasta

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#2716352 31-May-2021 19:11

Apart from compulsory mask use, what could they tighten up compared with last year? Last year only essential workers were allowed to go to work, and the only other reasons people could go out was for essential supplies and for exercise in the local area.

Apart from completely banning exercise or making people starve to death I'm not too sure what else could be done.

tdgeek

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#2716357 31-May-2021 19:18

alasta:

Apart from compulsory mask use, what could they tighten up compared with last year? Last year only essential workers were allowed to go to work, and the only other reasons people could go out was for essential supplies and for exercise in the local area.

Apart from completely banning exercise or making people starve to death I'm not too sure what else could be done.

Enforcement. Arrests and fines. Not threats but action

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