2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2718092 4-Jun-2021 07:34

mattwnz:

I can't believe that we are again trusting people to do the right thing, when that is what lead NZ to go into the first lockdown. The entire point of the 14 day MIQ system is to prevent this as some people will lie. . There was a huge list of places of interest, so they could easily have missed one and just blame human error. Not only that, but many people seem to get it while in the process of travelling back. This new strain looks to be very contagious, and some people seem to have caught it simply after walking past another person, which suggesting it is more airborne than normal. I would hate to see NZ, which as a country is almost entirely unvaccinated except for a small percentage, start to get community transmissions occurring, with a far more contagious strain, and during the middle of winter.

I really think you are are slightly more worried than you need to be - there is zero evidence you can "just catch it by walking past another person" and after the reclassification of two cases yesterday afternoon as false negatives there is a lot less concerned people in Victoria now than there were a few days ago. Every single case has a known transmission path, and unless they get random cases pop up there is everything to suggest right now that their lockdown will end next week.

We can't change the fact our vaccination levels are so low, but at least we can have some confidence now that Australia has vaccination levels that are so much higher than us - with over 25% of people in many states now having had their first dose and significantly more people being vaccinated than in NZ (NZ is still around 10% pretty much across the country) it is going to offer us a lot more protection with the bubble in effect.

I know three people in the past week who have been to Sydney, and two of those people have made the comment to me that they feel a lot safer there than they do in NZ (maybe @freitasm can chip in since he's the third person!). People actually social distance, scan in, wear masks, and in general take precautions. Here we just have the mindset that we beat Covid and won and that there is nothing to worry about.

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#2718093 4-Jun-2021 07:35

I watched the ENG vs NZ cricket test last night till 1-45am (which I'm kinda regretting now, yawn) Lords had 7500 in the stands, hardly a mask to be seen

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#2718095 4-Jun-2021 07:43

sbiddle:

Here we just have the mindset that we beat Covid and won and that there is nothing to worry about.

You keep saying that and the only person that I hear that from is you. MEB has had four lockdowns and over a long period of time they have had lockdown restrictions, and CT popped up in a few locations just after the bubble started, so its not surprising that they comply better, it can happen at any time and it has. Here, yes, many are complacent due to human nature, we dont have sporadic CT popping up from time to time. If sudden CT was a regular thing here, more would be cautious, again that's human nature

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#2718098 4-Jun-2021 08:07

freitasm:

Batman: Kiwis can return from Melbourne next week

"Travellers on these flights would need to have returned a negative Covid-19 test within the last 72 hours, and sign a declaration saying they had not been in a place of interest."

Yeah, right.

As mentioned in the article, and by Hipkins, anyone in Melbourne has effectively been in a "loose" MIQ, as by the time they can fly home the lock down would have been 14 days

While not completely eliminating the risk - it lowers it

Clint

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#2718100 4-Jun-2021 08:18

clinty:

As mentioned in the article, and by Hipkins, anyone in Melbourne has effectively been in a "loose" MIQ, as by the time they can fly home the lock down would have been 14 days

While not completely eliminating the risk - it lowers it

Clint

It does, but a loose MIQ is quite a stretch. Voluntary self isolation while on holiday. Chasing up 5000 people here and hoping the other probably 5000 are clear when they arrive back soon

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#2718104 4-Jun-2021 08:22

tdgeek:

clinty:

As mentioned in the article, and by Hipkins, anyone in Melbourne has effectively been in a "loose" MIQ, as by the time they can fly home the lock down would have been 14 days

While not completely eliminating the risk - it lowers it

Clint

It does, but a loose MIQ is quite a stretch. Voluntary self isolation while on holiday. Chasing up 5000 people here and hoping the other probably 5000 are clear when they arrive back soon

I was only referring to the people currently in MEL.

It was not a voluntary self isolation while on holiday - it was a city wide lockdown - so its is likely almost all in the city limits would have complied

CLint

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#2718106 4-Jun-2021 08:24

clinty:

I was only referring to the people currently in MEL.

It was not a voluntary self isolation while on holiday - it was a city wide lockdown - so its is likely almost all in the city limits would have complied

CLint

In name only, we are all aware how people treat lockdown, especially when for Victorians its been so often and for so long

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#2718119 4-Jun-2021 08:52

clinty:

freitasm:

"Travellers on these flights would need to have returned a negative Covid-19 test within the last 72 hours, and sign a declaration saying they had not been in a place of interest."

Yeah, right.

As mentioned in the article, and by Hipkins, anyone in Melbourne has effectively been in a "loose" MIQ, as by the time they can fly home the lock down would have been 14 days

While not completely eliminating the risk - it lowers it

Still not good enough. People lie. And we know it. And a "loose" MIQ i not good when these people will be on an airport for a couple of hours, on a plane over three hours and then another hour mucking around duty-free after landing here.

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#2718120 4-Jun-2021 08:56

sbiddle:

I know three people in the past week who have been to Sydney, and two of those people have made the comment to me that they feel a lot safer there than they do in NZ (maybe @freitasm can chip in since he's the third person!). People actually social distance, scan in, wear masks, and in general take precautions. Here we just have the mindset that we beat Covid and won and that there is nothing to worry about.

This is the truth. While in Sydney for a couple of days I've noticed:

- the airport requires you to wear mask as soon as you get there - all the time, everywhere
- a lot more people wearing masks while on the streets
- medium and larger sizes cafes and restaurants have separate entries and exits if possible - if not they have barriers to separate people entering and leaving the premises.
- all businesses seem to have a limit on the number of people inside, not only hospitality
- lots and lots of "do not sit here signs" and spaces between tables
- Covid QR signs everywhere and most people scanning in

It felt like Sydney (at least the CBD) was trying.

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#2718128 4-Jun-2021 09:16

People under 'restriction' for comparison..

Melb: 5.02M? - 4-5 cases at peak/24hr

Fiji: 890K - 35 overnight

Goes to show the difference cultures, methdods and populus can have.

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#2718139 4-Jun-2021 09:48

Handle9:

sbiddle:

No it doesn't.. But we don't pay for the cost of people's plane flights home - why should we pay for their managed isolation?

Managed isolation is for your benefit, not theirs.

Those people returning to New Zealand did so for their benefit not mine. They chose to come, therefore they should pay. The other option is they stay out until there is no risk to New Zealand.

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#2718142 4-Jun-2021 10:00

In herald today, is it ok to have Akl vaccination center across the road from MIQ. It's been there since forever, its not new. I have visited the auspicious spot and thought it gave a most interesting juxtaposition effect.

Here you go

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-auckland-vaccination-centre-metres-away-from-miq-facility/KJFR5UM5YGLDN65B4WA3P2P6PI/

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#2718145 4-Jun-2021 10:12

Technofreak:

Handle9:

Managed isolation is for your benefit, not theirs.

Those people returning to New Zealand did so for their benefit not mine. They chose to come, therefore they should pay. The other option is they stay out until there is no risk to New Zealand.

This. In the time of an international pandemic raging offshore, and the virus eliminated from NZ, MIQ is required for NZ to be able to allow any entries. It is not unreasonable to expect those consuming the MIQ service to fund it.

There is precedence for this. For example NZ has a Border clearance levy to fund customs. Clearly customs services are for the benefit of New Zealand as a whole, rather than the traveler, but the likes of bag screaming etc wouldn't be needed if they didn't travel, so it is not unresonable that arrivals pay the levy.

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#2718148 4-Jun-2021 10:24

Batman: In herald today, is it ok to have Akl vaccination center across the road from MIQ. It's been there since forever, its not new. I have visited the auspicious spot and thought it gave a most interesting juxtaposition effect.

Here you go

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-auckland-vaccination-centre-metres-away-from-miq-facility/KJFR5UM5YGLDN65B4WA3P2P6PI/

Given that we now have Day 0/1 tests before people are let out of their room, and then day 3 testing, I'm tending to agree its pretty much a perception issue rather than an infection risk,

Also as this story notes, people appear to have stopped "jumping the fences"

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/miq-escapee-numbers-near-zero-after-police-get-tougher

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#2718150 4-Jun-2021 10:31

freitasm:

Still not good enough. People lie. And we know it. And a "loose" MIQ i not good when these people will be on an airport for a couple of hours, on a plane over three hours and then another hour mucking around duty-free after landing here.

It's an odd's game. Melbourne with it's large population is getting single digit cases per day. Given that the city has been locked down for a while now, many of those cases will be several days from infection, so will show on a pre-departure test (or be a known close contact of a confirmed case).

The odd's that one of the few hundred travelers from Melbourne has been exposed to covid-19 so recently that they pass the pre-departure test, despite the lockdown limiting social contact is really really low. Clearly the authorized have decided it is an acceptable risk to carry.

If it was my call I would have waited until Melbourne recorded say 3 days in a row averaging less than 2 cases per day, then announced the end of the pause to be 5 - 7 days away. This would have reduced the risk still further.

I think we should also be doing on arrival testing for all of aussie. Potentially peoples pre-departure test's are 72hrs (+ say 4 hours travel time) old at the time they arrive. Collecting a swab on arrival (and collect contact details from each person before allowing them to clear customs) as a condition for MIQ free travel would give NZ a huge head start in contact tracing etc should the worst happen and a case turn up here from Aussie. Any state, perhaps a new outbreak Aussie hasn't even noticed yet...

Basically we need to be be exerting a lot of effort to stack the odds in our favor for the next three months. - basically the sprint to the finish line. Once we have the big pfizer shipments turn up, we will quickly get to say 40% of the population having had at least one dose. That kind of vacciantion level will slow transmission a little meaning any outbreak is easier to stamp out.

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