2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2731116 19-Jun-2021 17:36

Batman: "MOH... Asked anyone at the Sydney locations of interest to follow NSW health advice regarding testing and isolation, “and must not travel to New Zealand within 14 days from when they were at the location”."

Yeah, right. As if self-interested people wouldn't hop on a plane despite it.

mattwnz

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#2731212 19-Jun-2021 19:56

I just can't understand why they are delaying closing the border to NSW. It looks clear there is a new outbreak and we can't trust everyone to do the right thing. At least be cautious, NZs luck is surely going to end at some point.

ttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125498304/travellers-who-visited-sydney-locations-of-interest-should-get-tested-immediately-for-covid19-says-ministry-of-health

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#2731220 19-Jun-2021 20:57

mattwnz:

I just can't understand why they are delaying closing the border to NSW. It looks clear there is a new outbreak and we can't trust everyone to do the right thing. At least be cautious, NZs luck is surely going to end at some point.

ttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125498304/travellers-who-visited-sydney-locations-of-interest-should-get-tested-immediately-for-covid19-says-ministry-of-health

The NZ authorities seem quite keen to tie out response with the local response. If a city / state is going into lock-down then we will close the bubble.

Sadly this approach results in inconsistency in risk NZ carries between states. WA (Perth) seems pritty trigger happy on lockdowns, so we saw a few bubble pauses. NSW seems the opposite so we see open travel, despite the risk profile not being that way around.

DS248

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#2731228 19-Jun-2021 22:33

wellygary:

DS248:

Israel new case numbers have flattened at ~14/day average since substantial relaxation of restrictions at the start of the month despite very high proportions of the eligible population vaccinated. Previously falling sharply. Relaxed too early?

At least on face value, appears to highlight the importance of restrictions in addition to vaccination while cases are still circulating.

Israel still have border restrictions. Not as tight as ours* but they do require a COVID-19 PCR on arrival in addition to one pre departure.

(* "Those who have a valid Israel Ministry of Health vaccination or recovery certificate are not required to go into isolation upon arrival, if they do not arrive from the locations specified above"; ie. not been in (specified) destinations with highest COVID-19 risk in the 14-day period prior to arrival).

==

Suggests we will need a very high vaccine penetration before relaxing the border.

I think you probably need to look further than just infections though,

ICU admissions continue to grind lower... just 2 in the last week...

Vaccination is not 100% effective, so cases will get through, but in many cases it will stop you getting very sick...

NZ and Australia will at some point have to "take a stop of faith" and start to let people in without MIQ... getting that right is the next big challenge for our govts (as long as the bubble continues we both pretty much need to be in lockstep on who we let in)

A bit early to draw conclusions from the Israeli data. ICU admissions lag a few days - week behind initial detection (& deaths a week or two more).

It will be two or more weeks before the trends become clearer but the Israeli case numbers have been slightly increasing over the last few days.

And there are now early signs of increased numbers of seriously ill patients - 4 in the last two days (based on incomplete data from yesterday), up from the 2/week new ICU patients you mentioned. But an additional week or two+ of data will be needed to see if this trend holds.

There are other complicating factors also, including the very high vaccination rates in the most at risk groups - close to 98% of people 70 and over have had at least 1 dose (~94% fully vaccinated) and ~90% of 50-69 year olds at least one dose (85% fully). Not surprising that ICU admissions are low.

I suspect it will be a long time before NZ reaches those levels of vaccination, if ever.

tdgeek

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#2731316 20-Jun-2021 08:00

Scott3:

mattwnz:

I just can't understand why they are delaying closing the border to NSW. It looks clear there is a new outbreak and we can't trust everyone to do the right thing. At least be cautious, NZs luck is surely going to end at some point.

ttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125498304/travellers-who-visited-sydney-locations-of-interest-should-get-tested-immediately-for-covid19-says-ministry-of-health

The NZ authorities seem quite keen to tie out response with the local response. If a city / state is going into lock-down then we will close the bubble.

Sadly this approach results in inconsistency in risk NZ carries between states. WA (Perth) seems pritty trigger happy on lockdowns, so we saw a few bubble pauses. NSW seems the opposite so we see open travel, despite the risk profile not being that way around.

You have to remember that as part of the travel bubble, AUS and NZ are one state as far as the covid response is concerned. Has every other state closed the border with NSW? With no CT anywhere, the bubble is always a risk, when you find CT, its already been there for days and days if not a week or more. This is the risk that was known. As we all know, the economics and giving people travel opportunities always seemed to outweigh the obvious health risk. Remember all these screaming for the bubble?

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#2731462 20-Jun-2021 14:23

about the delta variant, Herald

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-variant-quickly-taking-over-the-world/TRAUFIVOYLAM72PLGPZ24KGD74/

sbiddle

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#2731469 20-Jun-2021 14:37

tdgeek:

As we all know, the economics and giving people travel opportunities always seemed to outweigh the obvious health risk.

The fact we can't run a vaccine rollout raises health risks as well. We still have firefighters who may be required to enter a MIQ facility if there was alarm activation (or even a fire) who have not yet been vaccinated because there are insufficient vaccines, yet we've vaccinated ~40,000 people from group 4 according to the latest stats.

Why can this be allowed to happen?

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Buster

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#2731533 20-Jun-2021 16:34

sbiddle:

The fact we can't run a vaccine rollout raises health risks as well. We still have firefighters who may be required to enter a MIQ facility if there was alarm activation (or even a fire) who have not yet been vaccinated because there are insufficient vaccines, yet we've vaccinated ~40,000 people from group 4 according to the latest stats.

Why can this be allowed to happen?

That's how I got caught up in this. Family member has to do stints working in MIQ so we have the risk in our home without setting fire to anything.

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#2731534 20-Jun-2021 16:41

sbiddle:

The fact we can't run a vaccine rollout raises health risks as well. We still have firefighters who may be required to enter a MIQ facility if there was alarm activation (or even a fire) who have not yet been vaccinated because there are insufficient vaccines, yet we've vaccinated ~40,000 people from group 4 according to the latest stats.

Why can this be allowed to happen?

My DIL is a volunteer firefighter, in the CCDHB area, not vaccinated despite being in Group 2.

The CCDHB website says

Appointments for Group 2
...
Frontline emergency service workers
Your employer is organising your vaccination directly. Please contact them to find out when you will be vaccinated."
https://www.rph.org.nz/public-health-topics/vaccinate-greater-wellington/getting-vaccinated/wellington-porirua-the-hutt-valley-and-kapiti/

I understand that FENZ chose to have theirs done privately. Police did the same but they’re nearly done whereas FENZ have barely got started.
There’s a page on the FENZ intranet which shows most of the country as TBC
They’ve completed a couple of dozen clinics nationwide

Absolutely a disgrace

Handle9

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#2731588 20-Jun-2021 17:07

sbiddle:
tdgeek:

As we all know, the economics and giving people travel opportunities always seemed to outweigh the obvious health risk.

The fact we can't run a vaccine rollout raises health risks as well. We still have firefighters who may be required to enter a MIQ facility if there was alarm activation (or even a fire) who have not yet been vaccinated because there are insufficient vaccines, yet we've vaccinated ~40,000 people from group 4 according to the latest stats.

Why can this be allowed to happen?

It turns out running a vaccination program is fairly complex. The issues you are describing have occured in every vaccination program everywhere in the world. I guess they are all shambles as well.

The only thing that really matters is the overall number of vaccines administered.

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#2731593 20-Jun-2021 17:48

PolicyGuy:

Frontline emergency service workers
Your employer is organising your vaccination directly. Please contact them to find out when you will be vaccinated."

I understand that FENZ chose to have theirs done privately. Police did the same but they’re nearly done whereas FENZ have barely got started.
There’s a page on the FENZ intranet which shows most of the country as TBC
They’ve completed a couple of dozen clinics nationwide

Absolutely a disgrace

FENZ made it very clear in April after discussion with MoH that not everybody would be vaccinated as part of group 2 because MoH didn't have enough vaccines. Police fit into this very same category and most Police staff are only going to be vaccinated along with the general public.

They opted to proceed with vaccinations for around 50% of frontline staff which included permanent permanent (and volunteer) crews who would be required to attend to calls at MIQ facilities (because it's a legal requirement now to have had both jabs to actually enter a MIQ property) and those who attended large numbers of medical assist calls. Medpro are handline this, and it's my understanding they also did the vaccinations for Police staff who were prioritised.

My key point was that we're so disorganised that we can't even allocate enough vaccines to ensure that every firefighter who might have to attend a call to a MIQ facility is vaccinated so they can comply with a health order put into place by the MoH and Govt.

sbiddle

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#2731612 20-Jun-2021 17:53

Handle9:

It turns out running a vaccination program is fairly complex. The issues you are describing have occured in every vaccination program everywhere in the world. I guess they are all shambles as well.

The only thing that really matters is the overall number of vaccines administered.

Sure it's complex.. But the MoH put out a health order that said everybody who walks onto the property of a MIQ facility has to have had both jabs from the 12th June. I would think the general public would assume right now that anybody doing so would be fully compliant with this requirement.

FENZ shouldn't have to be relying on a "you can do if it's a life or death situation" exemption in the health order. All frontline operational staff who are faced with entering the property should all be vaccinated, and some right now aren't. The MoH should have prioritised access to vaccines to ensure this could be complied with.

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#2731621 20-Jun-2021 18:17

I am in group 3 and am still being told to wait until I am contacted. But I walked into a temp vac centre a week ago and got the first jab with no problem. Also an appointment for the next one. The left hand really needs to talk to the right one here.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2731707 20-Jun-2021 20:42

sbiddle:

Sure it's complex.. But the MoH put out a health order that said everybody who walks onto the property of a MIQ facility has to have had both jabs from the 12th June. I would think the general public would assume right now that anybody doing so would be fully compliant with this requirement.

FENZ shouldn't have to be relying on a "you can do if it's a life or death situation" exemption in the health order. All frontline operational staff who are faced with entering the property should all be vaccinated, and some right now aren't. The MoH should have prioritised access to vaccines to ensure this could be complied with.

any journalists reading this thread ... here you go

Jase2985

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#2731758 20-Jun-2021 21:02

sbiddle:

Sure it's complex.. But the MoH put out a health order that said everybody who walks onto the property of a MIQ facility has to have had both jabs from the 12th June. I would think the general public would assume right now that anybody doing so would be fully compliant with this requirement.

or a single jab and the second within 35 days for new workers

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