Sleep problem, anyone had a similar problem?

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486 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278410 3-Sep-2024 06:29

OP Here,

Thanks for all the suggestions, certainly got far more than I expected!

To clarify a few of the questions in the thread:

Stress, a little, but not a huge amount, could be a slight contribution to lack of sleep, but I think it would be minor. I struggle to choose between options for decisions I need to make, even ones that are not important at all, its like mild OCD. When I wake I find myself uncontrollably thinking about these decisions and the pro's and cons for each option.

How I feel during the day, generally not to tired, but I do sometimes yawn a lot during the day, when it comes to about 8.30pm and its time to get ready for bed I dont feel tired, just want to stay up and do things, but I know if I dont get to bed before 9pm getting up at 5.10am is a big struggle.

Reading, to be honest I never read and have not been into it at all, its just not really my thing, bad I know.

When I do wake, I keep the lighting to an absolute minimum as I find bright lights just wake me up even more.

My diet before bed, im not a healthy eater by any means, but not so bad as takeaways every night though, more like once per week. My diet is typically high carb, but I eat hours before bed. I also do not drink anything but water after dinner usually.

If its relevant, I usually go to bed the same time every night even if I dont have work the next day, and find myself waking up for the day a couple of hours after 5am, leading me to believe than to much sleep is not the problem?

Finally, for what its worth, my fitness is not where it should be, so I have started one of those running programs on Samsung health, its something like training to run 5k or something like that. I did the first program yesterday after work, which was just a 20 min brisk walk, and also took two magnesium tablets at dinner and I managed to sleep through until 30 mins before my alarm went off, not bad!

_David_

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#3278414 3-Sep-2024 06:54

Sounds familiar. I found that even a couple of nights in a row of waking at 2am and checking my phone led to a habit forming. It's brutal but it sounds like you might be locked into that cycle now. I'm up 4:45am to get ready for work, I've found I have to be asleep by 10pm at the latest, but the thing that makes the difference for me is the lead-up to sleep. If I make a conscious decision to switch stuff off, check blinds are shut, doors are locked and work through my routine of anything that could make me worry while I'm lying in bed.

If I have to get up to take a leak, it's total darkness, no checking of phone, white noise (not needed if it's raining) etc; basically as little stimulus as possible and doing my best to keep my eyes closed and only opening them to briefly see where I am. If I stay as close to 'sleep' as possible then it seems to be way easier to fall back to sleep after.

Magnesium is good, but good sleep hygeine is better, so I'd be wary about things like phones or kindles or TV if you wake up. Likewise melatonin is very easy to get too comfortsable using, although it's much harder to get hold of these days.

The other thing that honestly is helpful is... kind of not caring about it? I know it's a battle the day after, but unless you have a real physical issue, you're going to square up on that sleep at some point. There's nothing that keeps you awake more than being annoyed about not being able to fall asleep. The flip-side is some nights I wake up and I just feel like I know I'm getting decent restful sleep so I'll push my alarm back and just start my day a little later if possible (e.g. no meetings / deadlines) and take advantage of it. If you have this flexibility, I'd recommend it. It's a helpful tool for managing your overall exhaustion, not just sleep on any given night. Sometimes it's just something you need to do.

Now, if I could get my three year old to stop hopping into bed with me at 2am like he's started doing since our second was born, I'll be fine.

sleepy

334 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278421 3-Sep-2024 07:33

If you sleep somewhere else if away for work or on holiday do you have the same issues?

David321

486 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278426 3-Sep-2024 07:53

sleepy:

If you sleep somewhere else if away for work or on holiday do you have the same issues?

Its been so long since I slept away from home/work or was on holiday its hard to tell!

_David_

tim0001

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278448 3-Sep-2024 09:30

The podcast Unlock Better Sleep and Health by Harnessing Your Circadian Rhythm has a lot of info.

Eg "If you are sitting in a chair all day, then blood will tend to, you get your puffy ankles or your lower legs tend to fill with fluid, with blood, and then you lie down and that blood is then integrated back into the body. What’s fascinating is that by just simply lying down, and by sitting all day, you can produce, you could, that you need to get rid of that fluid. And so you can produce as much as a liter of urine simply by lying down after a day of sitting."

timmmay

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#3278510 3-Sep-2024 10:42

billgates:

Try Magnesium. Worked wonders for me. It takes around an hour to kick in so I take it before bed and generally now dont get up before 6AM at latest.

Buy GO Healthy Magnesium One-A-Day 500mg 60 Capsules Online at Chemist Warehouse®

There are many different forms of Magnseium. As a layman with no medical knowledge, who has done some reading, I suggest magnesium glycinate / bisglycinate (same thing - different names). Citrate has more gastro side effects, oxide isn't as easily absorbed, threonate gets in the brain more easily but it's very expensive - great for migraines apparently.

gbwelly

1243 posts

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#3278514 3-Sep-2024 11:03

David321:

I wake up sometime between midnight and 5am to use the bathroom and drink some water (which happens every night)

If I drink cold water, I don't go back to sleep. You could try skipping it.

Might be worth getting checked out for diabetes if you are weeing lot and frequently thirsty.

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eracode

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#3278516 3-Sep-2024 11:13

tim0001:

The podcast Unlock Better Sleep and Health by Harnessing Your Circadian Rhythm has a lot of info.

Eg "If you are sitting in a chair all day, then blood will tend to, you get your puffy ankles or your lower legs tend to fill with fluid, with blood, and then you lie down and that blood is then integrated back into the body. What’s fascinating is that by just simply lying down, and by sitting all day, you can produce, you could, that you need to get rid of that fluid. And so you can produce as much as a liter of urine simply by lying down after a day of sitting."

Sorry but that quote doesn’t read well, is hard to follow and doesn’t make much sense as a result.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

muppet

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#3278539 3-Sep-2024 12:22

I was having some real problems with this sort of thing, but then I rang one of those anonymous confession lines and confessed to the murders and explained I was "Pretty sorry about it" and now I'm sleeping like a baby again.

tim0001

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278543 3-Sep-2024 12:29

@eracode:

Fair point, I just copied the transcript. Here tidied up version (by chatgpt)-

If you spend the entire day sitting, blood can pool in your ankles and lower legs, causing them to become puffy with excess fluid. When you lie down, this fluid is redistributed throughout your body. Interestingly, just by lying down after a day of sitting, you can produce up to a liter of urine as your body works to eliminate that excess fluid.

eracode

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#3278554 3-Sep-2024 13:02

tim0001:

@eracode:

Fair point, I just copied the transcript. Here tidied up version (by chatgpt)-

If you spend the entire day sitting, blood can pool in your ankles and lower legs, causing them to become puffy with excess fluid. When you lie down, this fluid is redistributed throughout your body. Interestingly, just by lying down after a day of sitting, you can produce up to a liter of urine as your body works to eliminate that excess fluid.

Not sure how that is relevant to the OP’s question about his sleeping issues.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

timmmay

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#3278555 3-Sep-2024 13:04

Seems like it's relevant and interesting to me.

anatokidave

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#3278675 4-Sep-2024 00:26

A couple more thoughts:

Re the need to get up to pee, I'm quite a bit older than the OP, but consider it unusual if I need to get up and pee overnight.

Perhaps look at lifestyle factors - eg Do you consume caffeine or alcohol during the day - and if so, how much and when. Consider reducing daily caffeine consumption to a cup or 2 of coffee / soft drink / energy drink (or whatever of ur preferred means of delivery), and not having any caffeine after midday. Instead of caffeine in the PM, drink water. Try cutting out alcohol for a few days and see if this improves matters. Carrying extra weight might be an issue too, so if this is relevant, take some steps to address it.

Likewise with food - reduce NaCl salt intake and consumption of highly processed foods and sugar. Search for terms such as 'sleep hygiene' and 'nocturia' for relevant info, and if you think some of this info is relevant to ur situation, maybe discuss with ur GP to verify the validity of the info.

In addition to the above, maybe a routine before bedtime that encourages complete voiding of the bladder might help too - a chat with the GP might also help here.

Re the issue with getting back to sleep, I find that slow deep breathing exercises help if I can't get to sleep quickly. eg exhale fully, then count to 8 while breathing in slowly, count to 8 while holding breath, count to 8 when breathing out slowly, count to 8 again before starting to breathe in slowly (rinse and repeat as needed). Search for 'Military Sleep method' for other variations on this, plus muscle relaxation, and brain 'detox' methods (essentially a type of NLP to encourage the brain to relax and stop being so active).

Good luck!

Goosey

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#3278679 4-Sep-2024 06:32

if it hasn’t been mentioned thus far, here’s some tips to consider

reduce caffeine during the day

reduce sugar (chocolate / sweets)

reduce some of those carbs (your body is trying to process these all day and night)

how’s your day job? Are you always thinking about it after hours ?

and controversially, would increasing “cuddle time” frequency help? What’s your sleep like after that?

David321

486 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3278681 4-Sep-2024 06:42

Thanks again for the further replies

Two days ago went for a 20 min power walk after work as my fitness is not where it should be (part of the problem sleeping I suspect), I also took two magnesium tablets at dinner, I slept the whole night that night!

Didn't go for a walk yesterday but still took two magnesium tablets, I woke at 4 this morning which is one hour before my alarm.

Im going for another walk after work today and will continue on the Mg tablets and see how I go tonight.

Does anyone know if the body gets dependent on Mg for sleep if taken routinely? (will also try to find answer on google).

Thanks!

_David_

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